Here's a datasheet for a really cool, but sucky unit - hopefully this will give them an outing! DAEMONHOSTS!!!!! WOO!!!!

Again the point cost is up for debate, but I'm also a little shakey on the abilities. Do they look ok? I want to take a bit of the randomness to allow players to use their cool stuff (the Psychic trigger & I control you), but also show how random they can be (Free of the Shackles). If you can think of better ways of representing a cool concept, let me know - it's up for discussion.

What do you think - is it any good? Have I achieved the plan of getting people to use daemonhosts - are they too good/bad?

Arrrr my datasheet wont upload it's in size & everything! Have I gone mad or is there a problem?

The doc attachment thing is only a day or two old, it had a bit of a hiccup at first, are you sure your well within size remember 256kb is a strange number (bits to a byte being what they are your best aiming for something under 240,000 for safety) If you can live with it just stick up text for now... I personally am looking for some rebellion of the demonhost thing (like cats form a brood if you get more than 6 of them and stop being pets- they go more feral)
I'm sure spack has wiser advise on attachements.

Ok, here it is in text

PATH OF THE RADICAL - 100pts + models:

Fluff: Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Inquisitors are bestowed with the devine right of the Emperor, to dispense his justice and ensure his flock are kept pure and safe. This is a great burden for these powerful and knowledgeable men. Those who are part of the ranks of the Ordo Malleus, the so-called Daemon Hunters, bear the greatest burden of all. Not only are they tasked with watching over the servants of the Emperor, but they also must fight the foul abominations of the Warp. They delve into forbidden texts, tread where others dare not and know the most dangerous secrets of the galaxy. It is little wonder that some of these men turn away from the light of the Emperor, believing that they alone can utilise the raw power of the Warp against itself, using blasphemous canticles and insane runes to bind a daemon to human flesh – the Daemonhost

Formation:
1 Daemon hunter Inquisitor lord
2-4 Daemonhost units

Rules:
Psychic trigger: The Daemonhosts are a heretical binding of Daemon and flesh. In their creation many Inquisitors embed ‘triggers’ into the human mind before their possession. This renders the Daemon more controllable to the Inquisitor. As long as the Inquisitor is within 12” and line of sight, the Daemonhost may chose which psychic power it manifests from unit entry in Codex: Daemon hunters.

I control you: The Inquisitor is able to control the Daemonhost (to an extent) and use the creatures to their own ends. The creatures are stuff of the Warp, and are able to pass through the Immaterium for a short time. All Daemonhosts within 24” of the Inquisitor may use the strategic redeployment stratagem.

Free of the shackles: Should the Inquisitor be killed (by any means) any remaining Daemonhosts are freed of the shackles of their master. The Daemon fully takes over the flesh of the host and is able to express its blind fury. The Daemonhost must move directly toward the nearest unit (of either side) and must assault it if possible, such is the rage of the Daemon it is able to move and assault 12” – the Daemonhost no longer rolls for its random psychic power – otherwise its stats do not change.

Whaddya fink?

There you go. by the by the attachment was a .doc at 109KB.

I'll make my point through fluff, did eisenhorn maintain total control of his single demon?
He needed an awful lot of stuff to do that. How about the strain of controlling them shows?2 demonhosts he controls them utterly (as with psychic trigger) 3-4 you get a venerable like effect (a lessoning of controll over all of them) "By the Emperor! Don't touch that!" you may reroll for what they are about to do, (or the horrible holofields mistake- roll 2 and pick one)(that way they won't terrify your whole army all the time, but also means you won't have folks using first turn teleport for a squad of them).Another off top of head alternate is a reserve dice roll ( similar to demon mastery), is Ljundhammer tricked by the demons this turn,(which may even have a modifer based on how many he is focussing his will on) ?

If redeployment is just for the demons where will they redeploy to... let them take the inquisitor and retinue along with them.(also making it only for those folks and with one of the tinkerings listed above in some form- I'd drop the price a fair whack)

Basically I like it,though i personally would like a tad more rebellion.

killmaimburn wrote:I'll make my point through fluff, did eisenhorn maintain total control of his single demon?
He needed an awful lot of stuff to do that. How about the strain of controlling them shows?2 demonhosts he controls them utterly (as with psychic trigger) 3-4 you get a venerable like effect (a lessoning of controll over all of them) "By the Emperor! Don't touch that!" you may reroll for what they are about to do, (or the horrible holofields mistake- roll 2 and pick one)(that way they won't terrify your whole army all the time, but also means you won't have folks using first turn teleport for a squad of them).Another off top of head alternate is a reserve dice roll ( similar to demon mastery), is Ljundhammer tricked by the demons this turn,(which may even have a modifer based on how many he is focussing his will on) ?

Woo - that's quite a mind fart - I'll try to take it one at a time

1. Eisenhorn was a fop and a fool , but yes, I take your point. However, I think if we are adding layers of complexity depending on the number of Daemonhosts we're in danger of entering bookkeeping rather than wargaming . The way I tried to get round that was by limiting the range (quite severly) of the "psychic trigger" to 12" - getting 12 Daemonhosts & an Inquisitor that close is foolhardy I'd say!

2. Erm - I think you're trying to say tone down the "psychic trigger" to roll 2 & pick the one you want, or the ability to reroll, rather than just pick any from the list. I like it - I might just put that one in - which I don't know - I think the reroll fits better, but hey what do others.

3. Reserve dice roll? Daemon Mastery? I take it you mean the Inquisitor takes a Ld test to see if he controls the Daemonhosts? I think that's going a bit far - either you roll a test per Daemonhost - again entering the realm of bookkeeping - or one test for them all - which I think would lead to a major points reduction - there's no reason to have the datasheet if it's that random IMO...

killmaimburn wrote:If redeployment is just for the demons where will they redeploy to... let them take the inquisitor and retinue along with them.(also making it only for those folks and with one of the tinkerings listed above in some form- I'd drop the price a fair whack)

Basically I like it,though i personally would like a tad more rebellion.

The redeploy is as per the "strategic redeployment" statagem - i.e. anywhere! Daemonhosts have the presitent of doing it anyway & it is limited by needing to start within 24" of the =][=. The =][= really won't be teleporting - I can't think of a reason why he would - he is only human after all (not half daemon). The Daeomhosts could always get back to him if they roll a teleport anyway...(I'm still optomistic that they might work).

Re the costing - I agree that it's overcosted at the moment (probably moreso when I change "Psychic trigger". I'd rather start high & work down rather than the other way round though.

Finally... I agree that more rebellion would be nice - BUT how to do it without making them even more useless than they are now? Either you make them UBER with UBER badness - but they are not actually full Daemons, so you can't make them too good - or you throw in so much randomness that it's a chore to keep up with.
Any suggestions gratefully received.

killmaimburn wrote:Were you 2 interested in making one venerable or similar as ranhotep suggested, or did that make things too complex.
Should I amend the document to encorporate the torch em rule now? (and stick jlongs name on somewhere?)

I think Jlongs pretty much got it now! Re: the venerable - I don't think it's worth it. Fluff: it's a tank full of promethium & is likely to blow up pretty easily (and they did in the 3rd ed codex ). Rules wise it just seems a bit over the top for not that much benefit (it is only a hellhound - a good one I admit, but a hellhound none the less).

killmaimburn wrote:With the demonhosts, yep a bit of a datablast sorry must have been the onion rings, venerable\holofields is a good option, and you may wish to take into account their concerted effort (1 roll for all rather than individually? might make them cost more as they can then work as a unit (without one either terrifying or DSing whilst the others charge), but if your keen to avoid bookeeping that will cut out 6 dice rolls a turn.)
"it is limited by needing to start within 24" of the =][=" thats the bit I was getting at... just checking that you knew that anywhere was actually anchored to wherever he went.

Ohhh, I like rolling for them as a whole - that'll save some headaches!
So were you thinking keeping them in units (rather than independant per the codex) and rolling per unit, or keeping them independant & rolling once for all of them, or somewhere in between?

New datasheet for more funky stuff below!

Thinking on Ljundhammers, I do think the only tweak left (after he decides how to tweak the roll in itself)on the demonhost one is whether its one roll for the group (faster) or not (as people are used to), if it is it makes them a much more potent force (they can act together- like super assassins (without power weapons)) but also (*if* they become a lose grouping)have a lot of waste in there too e.g. re knit host form vs multiple wound removal. terrify and bloodboil vs basic coherancy = lessor effect. I think some kind of loose coherancy (4" vehicle like? It could be called a psychich net\leash or similar) and being able to target them all rather than one after another (like those dratted assasins of Mkerrs) is a big downside (e.g. being hit by multiple strength 8 weapons of any sort is going to really hurt them), that would adequately in my mind balance out the idea of you having 4 blokes who you choose to have 12" move+charge+ double attacks.Or in assualt performing 4 bloodboils on a termie squad.
What do others say? (BTW this is from p24 of the demonhunters codex- I'm getting bit lost cross referencing special rules out of context)
Looking forward to hearing those ideas jlong