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Apocalypse Homebrew - The Puppetmasters of Change

For discussing and developing homebrew datasheets for Apocalypse

Apocalypse Homebrew - The Puppetmasters of Change

Postby killmaimburn » Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:54 pm

Ok so I've been pondering the data sheets, and reading what others have said here and in tzeentch tactics. So I'm perusing making an uber sheet.

Requires Ahriman + at least 8 other sorceror Hqs (9 inc ahriman, like 9 squad is 8 rubrics and a sorceror) and at least 3 rubric\1ksons squads of 9.
This causes strategic redployment (including non tzeentch who are his pawns for the game)the force also benefits from camoflage (means nothing to tzeentch but a big deal if they are leading traitorous gaurd etc) 5+ cover from first shooting turn, due to the haze of magics that has moved them around.
Furthermore in game these sorcerous HQ units may teleport units (*that they have joined*(change from veil and old words) in a similar manner to a necron veil (note that if transporting a non thousand son squad in this manner you roll more than 10" (even on a hit) Tzeentch has despised your use of his magics the unit must make a save for everymodel as it suffers traverseing the warp against his will.(It may be stopped by a hood as it is a psychic power but the modifiers of the other sheet apply)

So I was thinking of adding this lot to one of the above sheets, its considerably more uber (2 assets and a mobility mode for S+P ap3 doom units) So I was thinking of charging 333 points (1/3 999) (compare this to the chaos termies with gaurenteed DS bombardment and stealing objective goodies for an already obvious squad costing 250. What are folks views (remember the 333 incorporporates the 99 of the details of one of the other sheets, which one though? (I'm tempted to put it with the 2 lords of change on) Slap me if I'm starting to talk loco (but don't slap me quietly I need to know)
I was thinking that the +1 to hood stuff might effect BTemplarss and witchs shields of Faith (1/2 as much) but then I thought those don't really tap the warp... and they aren't like a 2+ invulnerable or anything to start off with so it was silly for me to look into that, others agree it would be dumb to look at that area?
Should I touch on the whole AP3 to other units and range things or does that cram too much in (I'm getting to excited and making a http://www.davetheguitarplayer.com/delorean.jpg aren't I :oops: )
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Postby killmaimburn » Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:06 pm

Heres my current version (we'll call it .8 of my first one) its the primary idea of the first two, combined with comments and critiques by peers (that means you folks reading and posting :wink: )
So what do folks think of this one
At cheapest it comes in at 1478.
And that’s at the weakest shroud, the lord of change killing one of his finest warriors when he arrives, with the least keys(easy to snipe off) and with no allied force such as basic CSM or guard to benefit from camouflage (since thousand sons have a better invulnerable anyway).

Just quickly scribbling around I think it would start working properly with 6 sorcerers and 5 rubrics (2500ish for this sheet) + a load of tanks and basic CSM or guard and hopefully some silver towers :twisted:

Obi wan was wise to hide you from me Jlong, I think the main problem, is how to encorporate the ability to not just have 6 slightly different marine armies and so many special rules your opponent doesnt stand a chance whilst still being free and open and liassez faire etc. At the moment I'm kind of liking the idea of minor trait disadvantages that effect an entire side, for each ally taken, but thats just because I'm an order freak. (and stuff just spews out of my mind straight ontot the screen :roll: )
Last edited by killmaimburn on Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby jlong05 » Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:08 pm

killmaimburn wrote:Here's my current version (we'll call it .8 of my first one) its the primary idea of the first two, combined with comments and critiques by peers (that means you folks reading and posting )
When it starts coming together properly I'll delete the earlier versions.
So what do folks think of this one
At cheapest it comes in at 1478.
And that’s at the weakest shroud, the lord of change killing one of his finest warriors when he arrives, with the least keys(easy to snipe off) and with no allied force such as basic CSM or guard to benefit from camouflage (since thousand sons have a better invulnerable anyway).

Just quickly scribbling around I think it would start working properly with 6 sorcerers and 5 rubrics (2500ish for this sheet) + a load of tanks and basic CSM or guard and hopefully some silver towers

Well, I looked over the datasheet and think it is very well done. I would say there needs to be a slight suggested edit. Only Rubric squads 'Still above' half strength should count for the added bonus/penalty. So if you start with 5 Rubrics you have the +/-4 but if you have 2 of the squads dropped to 4 men or less then you would now only be at +/-2 instead. Just my thoughts as they shouldn't count if they are no longer the 'magic' number.

killmaimburn wrote:Obi wan was wise to hide you from me Jlong, I think the main problem, is how to encorporate the ability to not just have 6 slightly different marine armies and so many special rules your opponent doesn't stand a chance whilst still being free and open and liassez faire etc. At the moment I'm kind of liking the idea of minor trait disadvantages that effect an entire side, for each ally taken, but that's just because I'm an order freak. (and stuff just spews out of my mind straight onto the screen

I agree, but really wasn't thinking of that kind of instance. Honestly, I guess that will happen, but I dislike a house rule that prevents what 'should' be allowed in a onesee/twosee instance because of the extreme cases you indicated.
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Postby killmaimburn » Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:13 pm

Cheers. The problem I foresee with the under half bit is that it to that point hasn't effected the sorcerer (the bloke who has the brain thats contributing to the smog of brain)If its to do with magic numbers... then wouldn't he lose it immediately when he took 1 casualty (as he'd then have khornes magic number) -I'm also running low on space..theres a load of text there and not much room for many more provisos.In a game in which squads face things like multiple heavy15 str 6 ap3 shots- Would it suffice if I just reworded it to make darn sure that the modifer went down when the sorcerers did?

I've spotted one big error GW style, I added flight and WOC to make the LOC stand out but didn't go back and cap his number to 0-1 lord of change doh! (= x amount of super demon kings for nothing- best go back and cap it- or do the maths on sequntial ones costing base +60 or something maybe)

The point 6 thing, I know its stirring trouble, thats why I'm hammering on through it (It is causing me a mild headache) IMO meta gaming where 2 blokes take an insane killteam with both agreeing within a 2x1500 army=good, taking 6 forces of 500 confusing over convulted and wrong one way or another, its not so much that I fear Mr cheesypants (although he does wake me up at night :5bullwhip) Its that if on that sliding scale we can find some wide rangeing middle ground that can be expressed simply.. pre game discussions will speed up and everyone knows whats right and wrong. (in their opponents eyes)And has some vague chance of being able to juggle the codexes. :lol:

How far does p117 traitor formations rule go?

Still have no idea where to stand with traits.(Its abit like taking old alpha legion and old iron warriors together) do folks reckon I should just let that last trouser button fall off and just accept its whats meant to happen? As I say Tau nids are allowed so maybe negative traits become even more of a joke in apoc?
Good lord my head really is going to burst

Changed wording to
Shroud of change: Whilst The Conduit sorcerer lives he uses his new powers to weaken the enemy and strengthen his brethren.(He may not use any other psychic powers whilst ‘The Conduit’, but treat it in a similar fashion to an always-on power such as ‘enhance’(e.g. no need to test)) Take one away from the score rolled for psychic tests by the owning players army,(unless this would cause a ‘perils of the warp’) on top of this add one to your dice roll when fighting against psychic hoods. For each extra 9 man rubric squad on the table at the start of a game turn(beyond the mandatory 2)subtract a further 1 to psychic tests and add a further 1 to the hood roll, to a total modifier of -\+ 4 (when you field 5 rubric squads of 9). The shroud also prevents them taking “perils of warp” that may be brought about rolling over 12 by Runes of warding, however such situations still cause powers to fail in the conventional manner. The basic state of a conduit modifier is -\+1 as long as at least 1 aspiring sorcerer remains on the table. If none is present the power switches off.
Is that far enough?
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Postby jlong05 » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:33 pm

Ranhothep wrote:Traitor formations: I understand it, that you can buy every datasheet, but you have to be able to purchase the relevant units legally. So you can buy the linebreaker data sheet as the vehicles are in your codex as well. you can buy a baneblade because it is a data sheet on its own. but you cant buy land speeders, so the data sheet for whirlwinds and speeders wont help you. similarly chaos couldnt use the assassins data sheet as they cant normally include them in an army
This all makes sense to me. I wouldn't think that Traitor units woudl be able to get 'access' to stuff it didn't normally have access to.
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Postby killmaimburn » Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:38 am

Ok latest version, with spelling typos and math bits fixed in a doc format (Sorry I still can't get a decent pdf made) View in print layout, should look similar to the previous ones.
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Postby Spack » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:10 pm

Your PDF seems to be OK, did you edit the post to remove the .doc then?
Last edited by Spack on Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby killmaimburn » Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:08 pm

Yep, I finally got acrobat 8 to work properly (it kept saying it couldn't handle the docs formatting the first 8 times I tried). I know that tim and others don't have word, so rather than another fuzzy jpeg I figured PDF- the way of the future etc.
Re my Pm and deleting posts it was post 9 on this thread ( http://www.ageofstrife.com/modules.php? ... =4100#4100 ). I don't think I can delete something that isnt't the last post in a thread
I think I need to be a little less :5opera , a review of ok seems almost :cry: . :lol:
I think my next one is going to be 4+ squads of scouts with some bikes etc- something hinting a bit expeditionary crossed with white scars. Feel free to brainstorm folks.
I appreciate I made a bit of a mess of the first page of this thread, I'll tidy up and have a new version of 1-6 based on stuff soon- till then lets datasheet 8)
Last edited by killmaimburn on Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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