1500 pts Nurgle Daemons? ("Plague Zombies") 2nd dr

LordMalekTheRedKnight · by **LordMalekTheRedKnight** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:29 pm

Hey all

ive been mulling over taking my Plague Zombie CP forceup to 1500 pts for some time now. i thought i would post my thoughts and see if anyone can offer me some advice...

EDIT: i have posted my 2nd draft here.

Code: Select all: Plague Zombie [Nurgle Daemons] List (1497 pts) p HQ [315 pts] Alpha Level Psyker "The Puppetmaster" [Epidemius @ 110 pts] - Cloud of Flies, Plaguesword, Aura of Decay Corpse Gollem [Great Unclean One @ 205 pts] - Noxious Touch, Cloud of Flies, Aura of Decay, Unholy Might, Instrument of Chaos TROOPS [1182 pts] Plague Zombie pack #1 [17 Plague Bearers = 255 pts] Plague Zombie pack #2 [18 Plague Bearers = 270 pts] Plague Zombie pack #3 [18 Plague Bearers = 270 pts] Plague Zombie pack #4 [18 Plague Bearers = 270 pts] Severed Legion [9 Nurgling bases = 117 pts]

thats 4 Scoring Units, 7 Kill Points, 82 models, 106 Wounds, 6 Deepstriking units (3 in first wave).

its very light on Anti-tank (the only thing that can tackle AV11+ is the GUO, but he does score 14 on average to Penetrate), but i couldnt think of anything else to fill this role that i could fit into the theme. i was considering making some zombie horde bases (3-4 zombies on a 60mm base) to represent Beasts of Nurgle, but as they arent Scoring, i felt there wasnt room for them.

i think Epidemius would join the 17 strong Plaguebearer unit, and aim to come down in the first wave... or would it be better to keep him in Reserve until the kill Tally starts to go up? as to the GUO, is it better to keep him in reserve until the enemy are tied up in CC, or should i get him on the table to start smashing tanks as soon as possible?

the best thing about this list is that i can build it quickly and cheaply, for less than 3 more boxes of WHFB Zombies (the Corpse Gollem would be made of greenstuff and bodyparts and the "severed legion" would be made from spare parts like hands, heads, legless zombies pulling themselves along etc), although i dont know yet what i would use for the Psyker (maybe the guy on the left?).

so, what do you think? would this list just be a pushover? or boring as hell to use/face? or a fun and fluffy challange? :?:

cheers

~ Tim

killmaimburn · by **killmaimburn** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:48 pm

I think 2 big plague bearer units good, but the other 2 could be smaller and get in some DPs 9also fluffy cos you got to remember the magic number).. you need to get your tally up for it to get dangerous and DPs can do this (I'd accept a dragon a dreadnought a defiler.. heck even your swamp beast on a pole to count as a DP if you needed)
Here are some comparitive lists so you can see what I mean (other wise its too slow to start off and yes would come across as rather dull- at least this way its deadly too)
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/po ... age#312880
http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.ph ... =Epidemius
http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.ph ... =Epidemius
Hope they help

LordMalekTheRedKnight · by **LordMalekTheRedKnight** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:07 pm

cheers mate. i was thinking of taking a DP, but i wasnt sure (both in terms of the pts cost and getting the stats to fit a suitable model).

this list doesnt use my Sludge Beast, so he could probably stand in for a DP. something like:

Daemon Prince: Unholy Might, Mark of Nurgle, Cloud of Flies.

that would cost me 7 Zombies. thoughts?

something else i was considering was replacing the GUO with Ku'Gath the Plaguefather, for just over 6 Zombies (if i drop Cloud of Flies on the Prince then its 6, otherwise its 7). this would give me 2 ranged weapons (one of which can hurt Vehicles), more Attacks and more Wounds, and the ability to make Nurglings (anthough not in Annihilation

). the downside is that i would only be S6 vs Vehicles (no Unholy Might)

what do you think?

these 2 combined put my Zombie count down from 71 to just 58 - and those are my only Scoring models.

cheers

~ Tim
p.s. EDIT:

killmaimburn wrote:I think 2 big plague bearer units good, but the other 2 could be smaller and get in some DPs 9also fluffy cos you got to remember the magic number)..

remember that this is a "counts as" list - its not really 'Nurgle', so the sacred number has no bearing on it really.

if i did drop some Zombies to take the Prince and upgrade the GUO, i was thinking of maybe 3 units of Plaguebearers: 18 (+Epi), 20 & 20. thoughts?
i didnt want small units as i want to keep KP low and for the list to have a "Zombie Horde" look to it.

killmaimburn · by **killmaimburn** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:54 pm

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:something else i was considering was replacing the GUO with Ku'Gath the Plaguefather.

by Ed Zimmerman of Chicago on dakka tactica boards on kurgath wrote:but at almost twice the cost. I think the free nurglings are useless, so the main reason for taking him would be the large blast template. Unfortunately it has no effect on vehicles, and that's the one thing Nurgle needs help with.

i have no real experience with him.. but my gut says 2 DPs 1GUO 1 epi + swarm= winz.. how does that config in points?

heres a page of warseer on kugath that contradicts the above by the way
http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.ph ... ost3117650

http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.ph ... ost3101083

LordMalekTheRedKnight · by **LordMalekTheRedKnight** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:14 pm

killmaimburn wrote:i have no real experience with him.. but my gut says 2 DPs 1GUO 1 epi + swarm= winz.. how does that config in points?

2 DPs would mean even less zombies, and i would have to find a model for the 2nd one.

Ku'gath has an AP2 Ordnance weapon (BS4) that wounds anything on a 4+. this give me something to do on turn he arrives, and an early start on my Tally. it also helps against things like Termies, which i would otherwise struggle against. he also has Breath of Chaos included in his cost, which can hurt Vehicles.

EDIT: just realised i got the points cost wrong on the DP in my last post! :oops:

a DP with Unholy Might, Cloud of Flies and MoN comes to 135 pts, or 9 Zombies. 2 like that would would bring me from my original 71 Zombies to just 53.

the difference between Ku'Gath and the ordinary GUO i was already planning on taking is only 95 pts. 30 pts of that is Breath of Chaos. so for 65 pts (and no S Bonus), he gets +1W, +1A, an AP2 Ordnance weapon, and the ability to make free Nurglings (for contesting objectives, acting as speedbumps etc) which will also benefit from my Tally bonus. from what i can tell, he can even use Breath and Missiles in the same turn, as he is an MC (does anyone dispute this?).

showering enemies with rotting flesh seems like a lot of fun, too. :twisted:

thoughts?

cheers

~ Tim

killmaimburn · by **killmaimburn** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:58 pm

Don't worry about the head count 53 T5 FNP things landing close by is still rude.. Your just adding a few big things to the pot (and this way you wouldn't have to buy as many zombie boxes)
But fair enough.. (remember as long as its not the uber super duper cheese of deathwing.. you could always kill everything else until you have rerolling 2+s to wound and power weapons on your swarm)
Its all of a tradeoff your basic guys need to amp up fast enough to become usefull and the way to do that is to take less of them..tis the law, its just personal preference where you sit on the slidy scale.
As to the 2 powers from MC (in demon codex so not really powers) Some folks somewhere dispute it (see warseer) but I reckon raw your OK.
(you seen my latest orky question)

LordMalekTheRedKnight · by **LordMalekTheRedKnight** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:52 pm

killmaimburn wrote:Don't worry about the head count 53 T5 FNP things landing close by is still rude..

im still reeling from the kicking a mob of Trukk boys and 3 Koptas gave me in CP... my initial thought was to include 80 Zombies.

killmaimburn wrote:Your just adding a few big things to the pot (and this way you wouldn't have to buy as many zombie boxes)

thanks to GF the costs will be minimal anyway, so its not reeeaaaally a concern. painting will be quick and dirty as well (i think i will try dipping or somesuch).

killmaimburn wrote:As to the 2 powers from MC (in demon codex so not really powers) Some folks somewhere dispute it (see warseer) but I reckon raw your OK.

well with Ku'Gath its surely not an issue, as only one of his range attacks is 'really' a power - the Ordnance attack is him hurling handfuls of Nurglings at the enemy. as long as i target the same unit with both, i should be OK.

right, i shall give the list some more thought - maybe post a 2nd draft. any more coments?

cheers!

~ Tim
p.s.

killmaimburn wrote:(you seen my latest orky question)

i had read it, but i never *got* those bomb rules, ever since the codex came out.

i will follow any responses and reply if i think i can help

LordMalekTheRedKnight · by **LordMalekTheRedKnight** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:30 am

2nd draft:

Code: Select all: Plague Zombie [Nurgle Daemons] List (1497 pts) 2nd draft HQ [410 pts] Alpha Level Psyker "The Puppetmaster" [Epidemius @ 110 pts] - Cloud of Flies, Plaguesword, Aura of Decay Corpse Gollem [Ku'Gath, The Plaguefather @ 300 pts] - Cloud of Flies, Noxious Touch, Breath of Chaos, Aura of Decay, Necrotic Missiles, Nurgling Infestation TROOPS [957 pts] Plague Zombie pack #1 [18 Plague Bearers = 270 pts] Plague Zombie pack #2 [19 Plague Bearers = 285 pts] Plague Zombie pack #3 [19 Plague Bearers = 285 pts] Severed Legion [9 Nurgling bases = 117 pts] HEAVY SUPPORT [130 pts] Sludge Beast [Daemon Prince @ 130 pts] Daemon Prince of Chaos: Mark of Nurgle, Unholy Might

what do you think? :?:

cheers

~ Tim

DoctorTom · by **DoctorTom** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:26 am

It seems slightly light on scoring units to me. Do you think you'd be weakening the zombie units too much if you went with 4 units of 14 Plague Bearers each? It would be the same model count.

killmaimburn · by **killmaimburn** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:57 am

I'd second that, your either going to be hit by a str10 ap1 pie plate or your not.. and having the 4th adds tactical versatility and more complex decision making process for your opponent.

I still think Kugath is a variable, play him and see what he's like a few times then play a regular guy+ amp up the other bits and bobs for more resilence (e.g. I thought Iron hide on a DP was near on mandatory) where is King?

killmaimburn · by **killmaimburn** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:37 am

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:
killmaimburn wrote:As to the 2 powers from MC (in demon codex so not really powers) Some folks somewhere dispute it (see warseer) but I reckon raw your OK.

well with Ku'Gath its surely not an issue, as only one of his range attacks is 'really' a power - the Ordnance attack is him hurling handfuls of Nurglings at the enemy. as long as i target the same unit with both, i should be OK.

Fluff means not much when its written in terms of a "ranged weapon".. unless you were meaning that in throwing nurglings all enemies put on extra tin foil on their heads to receive a fluffy 2+ save from the innocuous goo falling from the sky

So are you of the opinion that fateweaver, LOCs and Tzeentch DPs can fire 3 weapons a turn,with master of sorcery:?

LordMalekTheRedKnight · by **LordMalekTheRedKnight** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:33 pm

DoctorTom wrote:It seems slightly light on scoring units to me. Do you think you'd be weakening the zombie units too much if you went with 4 units of 14 Plague Bearers each? It would be the same model count.

killmaimburn wrote:I'd second that, your either going to be hit by a str10 ap1 pie plate or your not.. and having the 4th adds tactical versatility and more complex decision making process for your opponent.

the plan was to concentrate on Scoring 2-3 Objectives really well, while Contesting another with the Nurglings (and maybe Ku'Gath), so that i end up with the majority (i dont need to go for all of them afterall). i also wanted to keep the KP down, too...

i dont have a lot of experience of playing big games in 5th ed, so im not sure if this tactic is viable or not. once the force is built i can re-jig the unit sizes to my heart's content though, so i could try out several configurations.

killmaimburn wrote:I still think Kugath is a variable, play him and see what he's like a few times then play a regular guy+ amp up the other bits and bobs for more resilence

well im going to be using the same model regardless of who i use him as, so switching them back and forth wont be a problem.

killmaimburn wrote:(e.g. I thought Iron hide on a DP was near on mandatory) where is King?

i thought a sludge beast with a 3+ Save was pushing things a bit.

i was going to go for Noxious Touch, but i should be getting that for free thanks to the Tally, so i left it off (was advised as much by one of the threads you linked to).

if i wasnt taking Ku'Gath then i would probably consider Breath of Chaos on the DP (sludge spray).

killmaimburn wrote:Fluff means not much when its written in terms of a "ranged weapon

well fluff is the only reason people might feel uncomfortable about the Daemon "should-be-a-psychic-power-but-the-codex-calls-them-shooting-weapons". throwing Nurglings really is an actual shooting weapon, so it should never come up.

at the minute im working on my spiders, but if i get them done before i go to Dans then i might order my Zombies from GF, and see if i can get this lot put together in time for Feb. if not, it should at least be done in time for Aug.

cheers guys!

~ Tim
p.s.

killmaimburn wrote:So are you of the opinion that fateweaver, LOCs and Tzeentch DPs can fire 3 weapons a turn,with master of sorcery:?

what am i missing that stops the answer from obviously being "yes"?
MC = 2 weapons
Master of Sorcery = +1 weapon
2+1=3

you would need to have 3 different weapons to make use of it of course...

killmaimburn · by **killmaimburn** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:32 pm

I thought I'd bump this to ask how the list is working out for you?
I've been distracted from orks (again!!) this time by completeing my epi list (its just so many less models, I can do a squad a day)..
So far I have 2x7 skaven plague monks done.. 3 nurgling bases (made from wargear spru of rats) epi is coming along- (I bought plague lord nurglitch off tim) though he's currently riding a dog..and only base coated at the mo..I've got a marsh troll, minotaur and zoats for elites.. although I think the elites slots sucks.. and I have my 3 or so generic demon princes who I'll put some poo on or something so that people go "ooohh yeah nurgle righty".(I'm never going to buy a demon pricne for each of my 6 or so chaos armies its just never happening)
Future work is to finish the other 7 plaguebearers.. the other 4-5 bases of nurglings and then start looking at butchering my undead (heroquest sets) to get a few more plaguebearers going.
I'm wondering (since I have this incomplete wolf with scales riding around on sedan chair) if there are any good herald builds (designed to turn up later and take advantage of the tally.)
Is there any way to get relaible speed into epi lists.
And as I think I said above must it have the GUO?

KMB

LordMalekTheRedKnight · by **LordMalekTheRedKnight** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:42 pm

killmaimburn wrote:I thought I'd bump this to ask how the list is working out for you?

i have ordered 3 boxes of Zombies from GF, the Large Oval Base (for the Corpse Gollem) from my local GW, and the Renegade Psykers (for my Alpha Psyker Necromancer) from FW. once it all arrives i can start building.

im thinking of sticking with the 3 big Zombie (Plaguebearer) units, rather than splitting them up (although this might change once ive played some games) - i will have the Severed Legion (Nurglings) plus Sludge Beast (Daemon Prince) and Corpse Gollem (Ku'Gath) to contest the rest of the Objectives, afterall. :twisted:

as soon as i start building models i will update the thread.

cheers!

~ Tim

LordMalekTheRedKnight · by **LordMalekTheRedKnight** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:56 pm

everything has now arrived!

i has just finished clipping the bits (all 516 bits!) off the Zombie sprues and sorting them into tubs (one for heads, one for right arms, one for left arms etc). next job is to add in all the leftover Zombie bits i already had.

im busy the rest of the weekend (playing CP tonight, and then a mad dash to finish painting my Objective Marker), but once i get a chance i will start working on this army - i might even make a Project Log out of it.

cheers

~ Tim