RME wrote:Looking good Tim-

cheers
(i cant take all the credit though, as im just making the most of the units that my wife chose)

RME wrote:How do you use your Hawks against armies with little-2-no-tanks? especially MeQs? If you have played em.

i rarely use them against Vehicles actually, as it is so risky. instead i prefer to "rubber hawk" (start in reserve, land/drop grenades, skyleap, repeat), either for KP denial (enemy cant kill them if they arent on the board) or to contest objectives late in the game (this actually won me a game at Dan/Spack's club that i was losing rather badly in terms of casualties).

the Grenade Pack doesnt kill a lot most of the time, but sometimes it really pays off (how many Assault Marines did it kill at WHW Matt? was it 4 in one hit?). it just means they can contribute to the game whilst keeping themselves safe from harm. then in the closing stages of the game, they can land and either shoot, or Run to cover, and then either get stuck in or hide (depending on how the game is going and what the Objective is).

RME wrote:Also with the Avengers being so small in number, do they bag many kills per game or do they hide and/or take pot shots?

if i see an isolated enemy, then they sometimes advance through cover until they get into range and then start a firefight (works well against models with Bolters etc, as you outgun them at 13-18", and if they move into short range you can just back off). usually though i keep them hidden/in cover near the back of my firebase and use them as a counter-attack unit: if the enemy get to close they respond by moving out and bladestorming them. their reasonably good Armour Save helps them hold objectives too.

they even did quite well in CC against KMB's Daemons at WHW: it was DoW so i just started with the big Guardian unit + Farseer on the board, moved the Reapers and D-Cannons on in the first turn, and had everyone else in Reserve (in an attempt to ambush the Daemons after they arrived). the DA walked on, Bladestormed the Fiends and then charged them, and actually managed to wipe them out!
(very flukey luck though - neither of us could believe it!)

anyways, i hope that helped - i will be commenting on your list in a bit.

cheers!

~ Tim

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:

RME wrote:Looking good Tim-

cheers :)
(i cant take all the credit though, as im just making the most of the units that my wife chose)

Ah sorry Kate is it? I do appologies! (still good work with what your working with mate!)

RME wrote:How do you use your Hawks against armies with little-2-no-tanks? especially MeQs? If you have played em.

i rarely use them against Vehicles actually, as it is so risky. instead i prefer to "rubber hawk" (start in reserve, land/drop grenades, skyleap, repeat), either for KP denial (enemy cant kill them if they arent on the board) or to contest objectives late in the game (this actually won me a game at Dan/Spack's club that i was losing rather badly in terms of casualties).[/quote]


I'm quite tempted to try 5 myself with an exarch with skyleap keeping it relativly cheep while still effective. I also don't feel the need for Intercept in the new rules (in my area people rarely move their vehicles and if they do its VERY rarely over 6"). So I'm hitting on 4+ anyways.

the Grenade Pack doesnt kill a lot most of the time, but sometimes it really pays off (how many Assault Marines did it kill at WHW Matt? was it 4 in one hit?). it just means they can contribute to the game whilst keeping themselves safe from harm. then in the closing stages of the game, they can land and either shoot, or Run to cover, and then either get stuck in or hide (depending on how the game is going and what the Objective is).

Ouch- it is quite amusing when a unit percieved as a 'weak' unit can do so much damage! and actually win you the game. I can see them being VERY good in Sieze and Control (the two objective based mission, one in your DZ and the other in your opponents). DS last turn run/shoot depending on where/if you need to position yourself etc.

RME wrote:Also with the Avengers being so small in number, do they bag many kills per game or do they hide and/or take pot shots?

if i see an isolated enemy, then they sometimes advance through cover until they get into range and then start a firefight (works well against models with Bolters etc, as you outgun them at 13-18", and if they move into short range you can just back off). usually though i keep them hidden/in cover near the back of my firebase and use them as a counter-attack unit: if the enemy get to close they respond by moving out and bladestorming them. their reasonably good Armour Save helps them hold objectives too.

they even did quite well in CC against KMB's Daemons at WHW: it was DoW so i just started with the big Guardian unit + Farseer on the board, moved the Reapers and D-Cannons on in the first turn, and had everyone else in Reserve (in an attempt to ambush the Daemons after they arrived). the DA walked on, Bladestormed the Fiends and then charged them, and actually managed to wipe them out! 8O :D
(very flukey luck though - neither of us could believe it!)

Awesome- very wise tactics in keeping them back and keeping them in low profile position ready to pounce! I will be taking 10 on foot (Have taken them in Wave serpents before) so will probably be doing somthing similar to yourself. Keeping them towards the rear of my army and fairly mobile- moving to wear a perceived threat will be showing its ugly head!

And congrats on killing the Daemons! very satisfying indeed, I've not actually fought a Daemon army yet, but I hope to soon as I get more and more into the game!

anyways, i hope that helped - i will be commenting on your list in a bit. :)

cheers!

~ Tim

As always Tim you were VERY helpful!!

Ta!

-Rob

RME wrote:

Bladestormed the Fiends and then charged them, and actually managed to wipe them out!
(very flukey luck though - neither of us could believe it!)

And congrats on killing the Daemons! very satisfying indeed, I've not actually fought a Daemon army yet, but I hope to soon as I get more and more into the game!

The thing that got us was he killed more in combat (against my killy CC unit) than through bladestorming batrep
your rubber hawks did nothing to me I was more scared of your gribbly bike squad

RME wrote:I'm quite tempted to try 5 myself with an exarch with skyleap keeping it relativly cheep while still effective.

when Kate was choosing an army to collect, it was the Hawks that drew her to the Eldar.

RME wrote:I also don't feel the need for Intercept in the new rules (in my area people rarely move their vehicles and if they do its VERY rarely over 6"). So I'm hitting on 4+ anyways.

i only really tacked Intercept on because (a) im low on Anti-Tank and (b) i needed to make up the points. it has come in handy a couple of times though, but the FAQ has nerfed it a bit.

RME wrote:Ouch- it is quite amusing when a unit percieved as a 'weak' unit can do so much damage! and actually win you the game. I can see them being VERY good in Sieze and Control (the two objective based mission, one in your DZ and the other in your opponents). DS last turn run/shoot depending on where/if you need to position yourself etc.

thats what i did actually.

it was Sieze and Control with Pitched Battle Deployment. Turn 5 the Hawks arrived automatically, DS'ed onto the Marine's Objective, scattered but then used their Run move to correct it, contesting the Objective. my few surviving Guardians huddled around my own Objective, Scoring it. then we rolled to see if the game ended, and it did!
i had about 11 models left on the table.
(i had originally won the roll to go first, decided to give my opponent 1st turn, and had to weather tons of fire as a result - paid off in the end though!)

RME wrote:And congrats on killing the Daemons! very satisfying indeed, I've not actually fought a Daemon army yet, but I hope to soon as I get more and more into the game!

cheers

for the record though, i should point out that the game itself ended in a Draw (7 KP each).

As always Tim you were VERY helpful!!

great!

cheers,

~ Tim

it was Sieze and Control with Pitched Battle Deployment. Turn 5 the Hawks arrived automatically, DS'ed onto the Marine's Objective, scattered but then used their Run move to correct it, contesting the Objective. my few surviving Guardians huddled around my own Objective, Scoring it. then we rolled to see if the game ended, and it did!
i had about 11 models left on the table.
(i had originally won the roll to go first, decided to give my opponent 1st turn, and had to weather tons of fire as a result - paid off in the end though!)

Haha -

Thats brilliant!! I lost to a Nid player in the GT he had like 6 models left (1 gaunt on his objective, contesting with one of my Wave serpents, and he assaulted my Jetbikes on my objective with a Hive Tyrant and 4 Spine gaunts he killed the jetbikes and won, I had a few units here and their left but their was nothing I could do really, I tried to stop the assault with a vehicle but thinking about it I should of just played for the draw... :?

-Rob

You killed 6 out of 11 (full squad + captain). Stupid dice. Stupid grenades. Stupid rubber hawk eldar.

How I laughed when you then misplaced your later deepstrike and I moved them into the trees... the exarch impaling himself on a stray branch

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:
- Doom: this worked great as an "extra" power, allowing me to concentrate fire when i needed to eliminate a threat (DS'ing Termies with Heavy Flamer, and later 1KSons). worked well combined with Guide, and multiple shooting units. i will definately take this power again - but i would still want Guide and Fortune as the "main" powers.

Doom works better with some weapons than others. I really like it when used with anything rending, like pathfinders. Or with portal guns like wraith cannons. Or with Harlies.

Do you think you could use Doom in conjunction with Mind war?
That is a roll to wound... sort of.

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:
- the new Artillery/Scatter rules: i managed to use the Warlock's superior BS when firing the D-Cannons within LOS (2D6-4 instead of 3),

You can DO this?

Gymbol wrote:

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:
- the new Artillery/Scatter rules: i managed to use the Warlock's superior BS when firing the D-Cannons within LOS (2D6-4 instead of 3),

You can DO this?

Indeed you can, shame you cannot do the same with Guardians

- any Artillery Crewman within 2" of a gun can fire it (p55)
- when firing Barrage with LOS, you deduct the firer's BS from Scatter like a normal Blast (p32)
- when resolving a Multiple Barrage you start with the closest weapon to the target (p32/30)

so as long as the Warlock is close enough to the Gun model that is closest to the target, and he and the Gun have LOS to the target, he can deduct his superior BS from the Scatter roll.
(works well against fast units that have come around the terrain you are hiding them behind)

hope that helps

~ Tim

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:- any Artillery Crewman within 2" of a gun can fire it (p55)
- when firing Barrage with LOS, you deduct the firer's BS from Scatter like a normal Blast (p32)
- when resolving a Multiple Barrage you start with the closest weapon to the target (p32/30)

so as long as the Warlock is close enough to the Gun model that is closest to the target, and he and the Gun have LOS to the target, he can deduct his superior BS from the Scatter roll.
(works well against fast units that have come around the terrain you are hiding them behind)

hope that helps

~ Tim

Could you also use a Farseer/autarch etc for this as well, even if they joined the squad?

rrrrr
AAA
ccfcccc

R-Reapers
F-Farseer
A- Artillary
C- Crew

So you can fortune/guide the reapers and use the Farseers BS Or would he not count as 'crew'

-Rob

RME wrote:Could you also use a Farseer/autarch etc for this as well, even if they joined the squad?

unfortunately not: the Artillery rules say that while ICs can join them, they are not Crew.
(leads to a bit of a problem when it comes to allocating hits on the Crew though...)

best you can get is 2D6-4 with a Reroll for Guide.

~ Tim

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:

RME wrote:Could you also use a Farseer/autarch etc for this as well, even if they joined the squad?

unfortunately not: the Artillery rules say that while ICs can join them, they are not Crew.
(leads to a bit of a problem when it comes to allocating hits on the Crew though...)

best you can get is 2D6-4 with a Reroll for Guide.

~ Tim

Ah well- still not bad mind, BS4 is still quite impressive for us pointy eared lot.

-Rob

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:so as long as the Warlock is close enough to the Gun model that is closest to the target, and he and the Gun have LOS to the target, he can deduct his superior BS from the Scatter roll.

Can he fire all three guns? Vibro cannons.

Gymbol wrote:

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:so as long as the Warlock is close enough to the Gun model that is closest to the target, and he and the Gun have LOS to the target, he can deduct his superior BS from the Scatter roll.

Can he fire all three guns? Vibro cannons.

Hmm good point! or you could just measure the barrage off the first (Warlock) shot?

Would that work?

-Rob

That is the way it works for barrage weapons. You only roll scatter distance for the first shot. The following shots are placed touching the first template based on the scatter direction.