LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:i probably should have said a little about the local metagame.
no MEQs (closest are Sisters and Aspects), and not much AV14 (if any).

killmaimburn wrote:So in tailoring ( ) to purely your metagame- so that to you a landraider isn't even on your horizon your not breaking your own legs ..

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:my opponent used his CSM (i hadnt seen them before - he usually plays Eldar).

Biggest lesson .

Why would a sorceror join the berserkers? (fluff and efficiency wise) And why would a havoc launcher sit on a vindicator (especially with the new rerolling all scatter dice that makes it so expensive..compared to something vital like possesion)
Sounds like a good game with a bit of pitched battleing ..next time you'll win.

(what is the strict plural of ogryn..it confused me a bit in first reading-I thought the termies killed all but one at the start)

killmaimburn wrote:Why would a sorceror join the berserkers? (fluff and efficiency wise)

my opponent doesnt worry too much about the fluff side of things (i dont mean that in a bad way), and efficiency wise... its the only transport in the list, and the Sorc didnt have any other movement mode. he is also the 2nd best CC fighter in the list, and WoC as his power, so being with an Assault unit made sense.

killmaimburn wrote:And why would a havoc launcher sit on a vindicator

it was there as a backup weapon (since everyone always takes off the Demolisher ASAP when shooting at a Vindi).

killmaimburn wrote:Sounds like a good game with a bit of pitched battleing ..next time you'll win.

cheers!

it was lots of fun, with lots of different things going on allover the place (we used pretty much the whole board). i think only thing we didnt have were outflankers, but considering we were playing table quarters they would have been too much of a gamble. we had DS & Infiltrate, Transports & footsloggers, CC & shooting, indirect fire, fast movers & static units, GTG, psychics. by the end of the game we both had units in eachothers deployment zones. all very dynamic and exciting.

cheers

~ Tim
p.s.

killmaimburn wrote:(what is the strict plural of ogryn..it confused me a bit in first reading-I thought the termies killed all but one at the start)

just checked the codex and it is "ogryns".
i still prefer "ogryn" though.

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:it was there as a backup weapon (since everyone always takes off the Demolisher ASAP when shooting at a Vindi).

thats why ramming is the number 1 reason to take a vindie(after the cannon ).. it loses its gun you go round smacking the crap out of enemy tanks up to and including landraiders and area denialling all the fire pathways that way.. if after losing the gun you sit there fireing a single str5 (rather poorly aimed now) shot..your only purpose is trying to snuffle things a bit out of cover which is costly for what becomes a 160point tank.
You also have to rely on the dice giving a weapon destroyed result ..for it to become effective.. a weapon you don't use is a wasted weapon.
Meh.. trying to get you to improve your opponents lists bit off topic

just remembered i took a pic last night. its from at the start of the 2nd CSM Movement Phase (my Droptroops havent arrived yet, since i went second).

cheers

~ Tim

That looks like a poor imitation of estarriol's ruin!

How did you guys play your wood/tree positions? It looks like you might have been moving them around to accomodate troops. We'v'e taken to placing trees on the edge now with the 5th ed rules.

mattjgilbert wrote:That looks like a poor imitation of estarriol's ruin!

mattjgilbert wrote:How did you guys play your wood/tree positions?

we moved them when they got in the way of the models, but tried to keep them as close to their original positions as possible. it never made a difference for LOS purposes (no-one shot right through a wood, only into and out of them).

i made sure they were nice and dense so they actually blocked LOS pretty well.

~ Tim

Well at least you won the moral victory.. look that guard player hadn't even spray undercoated his minis, pah

The runin needs a very thin wash of black, or thinned black ink to bring out the gaps between the stones.

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:
Sorc + Berserkers in Rhino

Heresy! I think Khorne fixed it so you would destroy them (with a remnant squad...)

On a serious note and bearing in mind I haven't read the new codex, are you even allowed to have a character with a different mark leading the unit? Eg character with the mark of Tzeentch leading a unit with the mark of Khorne.
I remember in the first chapter approved written by Andy Chambers, concerning the 3rd ed codex, if your opponent had such offending characters you had 'his permission' to remove the model (to the warp to have a 'chat' with its patron god)!

Angelwing wrote:

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:
Sorc + Berserkers in Rhino

On a serious note and bearing in mind I haven't read the new codex, are you even allowed to have a character with a different mark leading the unit? Eg character with the mark of Tzeentch leading a unit with the mark of Khorne.

his Sorc only ever used 1 Power (Wind of Chaos, which isnt "Tzeentch only"), so i dont think he actually had MoT.

besides, i cant seem to actually find this rule in the codex...
(i know its in C: CD, and i know the effects of Icons dont apply to ICs, but i cant find anything to say an IC with one Mark cant join a squad with a different Mark... KMB?)

cheers

~ Tim

No their free to mix and match now, tzeentch lord leads nurgle qsuad etc (the mark isn't convyed and doesn't stack, the icon conveys a mark and isn't conveyed to ICs and doesn't stack) Demons of any model type can come to any icon etc etc.
But fluff wise it still grates and efficency wise the only sorceror I'd field is one in termie armour with doom bolt 125 and then reluctantly because DP with MOS wings is only 135 (and I play rude in a rude group):)

got in another game with this list tonight against the same opponent - this time he brought his Eldar (mostly-mech). something like:

Farseer + Warlocks in Falcon
Wraithguard + Warlock in Wave Serpent
DAs in Waveserpent
DAs in Falcon
DAs on foot
Swooping Hawks skyleaping
Warwalker Flank Attacking

mission was Seize Ground with 4 Objectives, with Spearhead deployment.

i used the same list and deployment/DS as before.

he concentrated too much on killing the Ogryns and Ratlings, and not enough on killing my Troops. this allowed me to capture 2 Objectives on the last turn (5). i was holding all 4 prior to that, but he managed to clear me off 2 of them. however, he only had 1 Troops choice left (DAs), and they were too far away to Score.

his man of the match was a DA Exarch, who survived for 3 rounds alone against my Ogryn: in total it took 17 wounding hits to kill him!

was a really fun game, but i am now exhausted.

next week we are playing a caveman game called Settlement (never seen that before but it sounds fun).

cheers

~ Tim

How did the flank attack go? I'm really looking for any positive experience with them (I've had 5 total wastes, read about 6 wastes in bat reps and so far only have Matt saying he's seen it work acceptably) Did you feel threatened by it or did you just move away from corners..Did it weaken how many units he had fielded (bad reserves rolls leading to you having easier choices in targets..etc Give us a brief speil..go on..
None of us use it now.

killmaimburn wrote:How did the flank attack go?

he ended up at the opposite side of the board from where he wanted to be , but as he had a 36" range this wasnt too much of an issue.

it could have gone a lot better for him, but he made a mistake: he didnt realise that my plasma-shooty-command-squad-(scoring unit)-of-death couldnt actually hurt his Walker in CC - i was dreading that he would charge them and tie them up away from an objective for the rest of the game (it would have also stopped my from shelling it with my Mortars too... not that they did anything to it).

instead he had to dedicate his Wraithguard and Seer Council to wiping my command squad out after it had taken an objective.

killmaimburn wrote: Did you feel threatened by it or did you just move away from corners..

i didnt worry about it too much, too be honest (its not like it was a full squad of Scorps or anything). one objective was about 16" away from a board edge, and when i tried to DS onto it i scattered badly, ending up right at the edge of the board. he moved on a turn later and shot me for a couple of turns (whittling my Command Squad down, and causing ID so ignoring my Medic), but (as i said above), it was the charge and tarpit i was worried about.

killmaimburn wrote:Did it weaken how many units he had fielded (bad reserves rolls leading to you having easier choices in targets..etc Give us a brief speil..go on..

it was only a ~50 pts Warwalker, so it didnt really make a difference to what he had on the board. half my army was using Drop Troops anyway, and he had his Swooping Hawks in Reserve too.

first few turns were like 1200 pts Eldar vs 900 pts IG. then my Droppers arrived and swung the balance in my favour... although that was mostly down to his Hawks Skyleaping.

the WW was a gamble: it could have come in on the side/rear of my Bassie and popped it on turn 2. instead it helped clear me off an objective with my toughest nastiest scoring unit. whereever it came on, it would have been useful, and arriving from Reserves meant it got to shoot before it was shot at.

a couple of different tactical decisions (or an extra turn and a bit of luck) and he could have gotten a Draw. none of this was down to the Outflank though, really.

an Outflanking Scoring unit would be best IMO, especially if you put your Objectives just over 12" from the edges of the board in good cover.

for offensive purposes, you want good range or speed, i think. i wouldnt want to outflank with a Meltagun squad on foot, for example.

cheers

~ Tim

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:an Outflanking Scoring unit would be best IMO, especially if you put your Objectives just over 12" from the edges of the board in good cover.

Yep - this is a good option - unexpected scoring unit turning up to win/swing the game.

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:for offensive purposes, you want good range or speed, i think. i wouldnt want to outflank with a Meltagun squad on foot, for example.

Agreed - you need something with speed and firepower that's going to make an impact or get out of trouble/where you need them should they come in on the wrong table edge.