by LordMalekTheRedKnight » Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:27 pm
IG 1496 pts Army ListKP: 16Model count: 4 Vehicles + 72 Infantry (86 Wounds)Scoring Units: 4Doctrines:OgrynRatlingsDrop Troops Close Order DrillHQ - Command Platoon [266 pts]: Command Squad (106 pts)JO: Plasma Pistol, Power WeaponVet: Medi Pack, Plasma Pistol 3 Plasma GunsDrop Troops2 x Mortar Squads (160)ELITES [344 pts]Ogryn Squad (185 pts)Bone'ead: Carapace Armour, Bionics, Medallion Crimson + 5 OgrynRatlings x 9 (99 pts)InfiltrateHardened Veterans (60 pts)Vet Sgt: Power Weapon + 4 Vets, 1 Melta gunDrop Troops/InfiltrateTROOPS [531 pts]Infantry Platoon:Command Squad (131 pts)JO: Honorifica Imperialis, Plasma Pistol, Power WeaponVet: Medi Pack, Plasma Pistol3 Plasma GunsCoD, Drop TroopsInfantry Squad #1 (99 pts)Vet Sgt: Plasma PistolGuardsmen: Grenade Launcher, Missile LauncherCoD, Drop TroopsInfantry Squad #2 (99 pts)Vet Sgt: Plasma PistolGuardsmen: Grenade Launcher, Missile LauncherCoD, Drop TroopsArmoured Fist(202 pts):Vet Sgt: Plasma PistolGuardsmen: Grenade Launcher, Missile LauncherChimera: Multi-laser, Heavy Bolter, Storm Bolter, Extra Armour, Smoke LaunchersFAST ATTACK [230 pts] 2 x HellhoundsHEAVY SUPPORT [125 pts] Basilisk: Indirect Fire
by Ljundhammer » Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:03 pm
LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:Hey all
IG 1496 pts Army ListKP: 16Model count: 4 Vehicles + 72 Infantry (86 Wounds)Scoring Units: 4sDoctrines:OgrynRatlingsDrop Troops Close Order DrillHQ - Command Platoon [266 pts]: Command Squad (106 pts)JO: Plasma Pistol, Power WeaponVet: Medi Pack, Plasma Pistol 3 Plasma GunsDrop Troops
2 x Mortar Squads (160)
ELITES [344 pts]Ogryn Squad (185 pts)Bone'ead: Carapace Armour, Bionics, Medallion Crimson + 5 Ogryn
Ratlings x 9 (99 pts)Infiltrate
Hardened Veterans (60 pts)Vet Sgt: Power Weapon + 4 Vets, 1 Melta gunDrop Troops/Infiltrate
TROOPS [531 pts]Infantry Platoon:Command Squad (131 pts)JO: Honorifica Imperialis, Plasma Pistol, Power WeaponVet: Medi Pack, Plasma Pistol3 Plasma GunsCoD, Drop Troops
Infantry Squad #1 (99 pts)Vet Sgt: Plasma PistolGuardsmen: Grenade Launcher, Missile LauncherCoD, Drop TroopsInfantry Squad #2 (99 pts)Vet Sgt: Plasma PistolGuardsmen: Grenade Launcher, Missile LauncherCoD, Drop TroopsArmoured Fist(202 pts):Vet Sgt: Plasma PistolGuardsmen: Grenade Launcher, Missile LauncherChimera: Multi-laser, Heavy Bolter, Storm Bolter, Extra Armour, Smoke Launchers
FAST ATTACK [230 pts] 2 x Hellhounds
HEAVY SUPPORT [125 pts] Basilisk: Indirect Fire
LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:i'd love to hear your thoughts on the list and the plan - cheers! ~ Tim
by killmaimburn » Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:41 pm
ruffian4 wrote:Handy fellow, this kmb...Like Ahriman delving the paths of the webway ...
by swordtart » Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:11 pm
by LordMalekTheRedKnight » Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:27 pm
Ljundhammer wrote:Waaaaaaay to pricey for a suicide squad! No need for the medic (they are all going to die anyway!), just take 3 or 4 plasma guns, kill some stuff, die in a hail of return fire.
Ljundhammer wrote:Mortars IMHO may as well fire silly string. Lascannons are needed here - you have no ani-armour.
Ljundhammer wrote:Bionics & Medallion Crimson are wasted points here. I assume you like the Ogryns & know that they aren't exactly the mainstay of a competative army, so I'll leave it at saying you are better off with RR if you want to assault anything.
Ljundhammer wrote:Seems a large squad, but it'll do a job...
Ljundhammer wrote:What? No really - What? What are these guys actually going to do? If you are after dropping AT you need 3 meltas, if you want an assault squad - play Space Marines. This needs a total re-think as to what it needs to do.
Ljundhammer wrote:What do these guys do? They stand at the back & stop your guys running away. Why give them any guns? If you are doing your job properly these guys shouldn't even see the enemy. Drop all the toys except the HI. Even better, swap this for the command squad & get a banner.
Ljundhammer wrote:Grenade launchers are similar to air horns - they are load, annoying, make your ears hurt & have no use in society - drop them. There is a gun for 2 points more called a plasma gun that actually has an effect on the survivability of enemy troops - use them.
Ljundhammer wrote:I prefer autocannons in line squads (high strength, good chance of hitting) with lascannons in AT role in AT squads. Missile launchers are neither good at killing tanks, nor can they hit anything reliably.
Ljundhammer wrote:Plasma pistols? At that price?
Ljundhammer wrote:I just found something I like! Where's the extra armour & smoke launchers? The best 8 points you can spend on ANY vehicle.
Ljundhammer wrote:You could have a plan so cunning you pin a tail on it & call it a fox. That list will be ransacked by pretty much anything that looks at it funny.
Ljundhammer wrote:You are lacking AT (1 melta gun & an earthshaker)
Ljundhammer wrote:Anti-personel (1 heavy bolter, not enough plasma)
Ljundhammer wrote:Movement (1 transport & 2 hellhounds)
Ljundhammer wrote:You are wasting points on wargear - you need to be ruthless with the IG - they are not an easy army to use, anything that doesn't efficiently kill the enemy at a long range, or stop your guys running is not needed.
Ljundhammer wrote:You need to sit down & work out what you like about the guard. The list needs focus. It also lacks pretty much all the good bits in the guard army (LRs, decent drop-troops & so much plasma it makes Marneus Calgar cry bitter tears of ineptitude).
Ljundhammer wrote:Sorry to come across a bit harsh, but hope it helps.James
by WolflordHavoc » Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:51 pm
by killmaimburn » Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:51 pm
by mattjgilbert » Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:02 pm
by LordMalekTheRedKnight » Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:08 pm
killmaimburn wrote:Congratulations on making it to the mens club
killmaimburn wrote:I think its important to work out what your group consists of..
killmaimburn wrote:you say your last list was comp gun line..Did you give it up to play gentler games with noob likes who think spawn are awesome,\if so I'd leave the list as is. If however your playing for fun and friendly competition there are a few things wrong with it.
killmaimburn wrote:I know that ljundhammer went around kicking puppies (not really dog lovers) about a call that GW made about command squads deepstriking, it might be worth checking with your group about how they interpreted it (e.g. if they decided that the GT rule became houserule la....if it did IIRC it kills your lists DS potential)Remember your the guset you can't just shout down their house rules for being silly
killmaimburn wrote:I would agree with Ljundhammer that taken hardened vets and then assuming they'll make it to combat is a bit strange- how about a demo charge or max plas/melta load out.
killmaimburn wrote:Same for the command squads,if they can..I think models over wargear is a good policy for what you want in your list.
killmaimburn wrote:I was unimpressed by ratlings when I've played against them..they seem to relie on the enemy never being bothered to think they are a threat..and then pulling a cat out of a hat,then getting the attention they don' want..but meh they're cheap if they do well do come back here and tell me.
killmaimburn wrote:Be prepared for those chimeras to do a lot less in 5th, its a big change for the larger guard armies- your mobile shooty cheap thing is no longer mobile.
killmaimburn wrote:I like the FA and heavy
killmaimburn wrote:The last time I encountereddrop trooping missile/lascannons it was because the bloke thought he could deep andshoot them..I think a stable firing line with guarenteed LOS paths would be more sensible for the guard.
killmaimburn wrote:I'd be interested to hear what wolflord havoc et al think about your list....
by Ljundhammer » Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:19 pm
LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:i probably should have said a little about the local metagame. so far, the 3 x 1500 pt lists i have seen used are:- balanced/mixed Eldar- Mech Tau- WH/IGno MEQs (closest are Sisters and Aspects), and not much AV14 (if any).
LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:i wasnt trying to win a tournament or anything with it, so i thought it was competent enough... (although again, i probably should have explained the local metagame in my first post)a good portion of the force can hide completely, some can infiltrate into good cover, and another chunk can DS (allowing it to get first shots in).
LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:see i think of Krak Missiles and Deepstriking Plasma Guns as AT...
LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:what about all those Blast Markers? i can drop up to 12 a turn, afterall.plus there are the Hellhounds, and all the Lasguns.
LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:Ljundhammer wrote:You are wasting points on wargear - you need to be ruthless with the IG - they are not an easy army to use, anything that doesn't efficiently kill the enemy at a long range, or stop your guys running is not needed.ive only spent 60pts on none-weapon wargear - thats probably less than i used to spend in my 'competitve' list! (and some of that saves me 5 pts compared to buying a HSO, and gets a 3W Ld9 model into a Scoring Unit)
LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:besides, i wanted to move away from "efficient long range killing whilst never running away" with this list (its what my old list did, and did well... a little too well). i would rather have fun and lose with this list than win whilst yawning (which is how it got with my old static list).
LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:the 'focus' for this list was to be as different as possible as the old one, and get as much as i could out of retirement. i also wanted a balanced approach, an army that did a bit of everything rather than specialising in one form of combat. ive got some long range and some short range, some shooty and some combat, some mobile and some static, some anti tank and some anti infantry.
LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:i can see about dropping a few bits and pieces (as above) to free up a few points, but what should i spend them on? a Remnant squad to give me another scoring unit? upgrades for the Hellhounds? some Grenades (Frag/Krak)? maybe i could swap a Missile Launcher for an Autocannon and give the squad Sharpshooters? .
by LordMalekTheRedKnight » Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:23 pm
swordtart wrote:Hmm, thinking outside the "How can I win box".I applaude your courage and I hope the emperor smiles on your grit (but it will probably be posthumous).
swordtart wrote:The trouble with an army that designed to move (rather than the static gun-line) that you wished to avoid is the many of the arms available to you are Rapid Fire which makes them useless when you move. GL is at least assault.
swordtart wrote:I presume you are using ML's because you have them rather than for any tactical reason (they are jack-of-all-trades as Ljundhammer says - but you know this already Tim) I would bin heavies entirely and have a fast moving squad that relies on flashlights and bayonets (ok faint hope, but it's fun). Give the sergeant a lasgun or better a bolter or storm bolter if you want to waste the 5 pts to make him a vet.
swordtart wrote:Definitely consider surveyors to get your shots in early.
swordtart wrote:Cheap troops mean 50% more of them and make him run out of bullets + take objectives, glue him up in CC etc. By that logic conscripts would be a good bet (and you have a slot free).
swordtart wrote:Your ratlings are getting better under 5th as now the BS4 means something and rending and pinning can really bog down the baddies, I would buy the extra ratling if you have the figure for it.
by LordMalekTheRedKnight » Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:42 pm
mattjgilbert wrote:Tim... maybe if you posted a list of the models (and wargerar) you actually have you won't get told to add something you can't
killmaimburn wrote:Where is your sentinal with improved comms- isn't that mandatory with this kind of build?
by LordMalekTheRedKnight » Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:28 pm
Ljundhammer wrote:The dropping guys will fare a little better, assuming they drop within 12" of the enemy to get your lasguns rapid-firing (even then there's a reason they're called flashlights). I'm going to pull out a little mathhammer here, because I can:...
Ljundhammer wrote:If you are going drop troop you need massive multiples of troops for redundancy & make sure that every one can punish the enemy.
Ljundhammer wrote:BTW, I know that this isn't for tournament play - I don't get the mentaliy that you need to hamstring your army to have fun - I'd rather play a good player with a good army that makes me think about every move I make than someone who will brings a list that has no realistic chance of winning. I like brining the odd unit to the table that other people don't like because I think I can make it work, but deliberatly selecting bad units doesn't make fun games for you or your opponent in my experience.
Ljundhammer wrote:I'm going to pull some more mathhammer on you:Your army has 3 krack missiles - v's a predator (I'm discounting your plasma, they are definately going to be needed in an anti-personell role):
Ljundhammer wrote:That's why I have lascannon AT squads & anti-personell line squads...
Ljundhammer wrote:Guard needn't be dull or ineffective
Ljundhammer wrote:Your line squads are a case in point - they cannot be AT and Anti-personell - they can only do one thing per turn, at the moment they do neither.
Ljundhammer wrote:If you want a different army, I'd go full on drop heavy...
by Ljundhammer » Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:54 pm
by LordMalekTheRedKnight » Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:14 pm
Ljundhammer wrote:Hey Tim, sorry, we crossed posts as you were posting your "stuff I can swap out" list.
Ljundhammer wrote:Given what you've got - I'd get the upgrades for the hellhounds & try to get some more scoring units in there. Given that you are going to be dropping, I'd leave the plasma pistols on your Vet Sarges (much as it pains me to say it!) as there isn't anything else to viably swap in.
Ljundhammer wrote:Have you got anything like an =][= you can push in (a 3 x HB squad would be quite tasty in here I think).
Ljundhammer wrote:I wouldn't bother about infiltrators, I think if they have infiltrate you will likely want to drop, simpley to confuse them & put the advantage back to you...
Ljundhammer wrote:Again grenades don't - bother, if you haven't killed it by shooting it, you are unlikely to hurt it & frags are useless - you'll likely be going second anyway!
Ljundhammer wrote:A bucket load of LSD will lighten the mood in any event
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