Eldrad
h:2 units of walkers w/ scatter lasers
h:sword-wraithlord
e:scorpions
hq:autarch/ fusion gun (rides with)
e:fire dragons/waveserpent
t:dire avengers/waveserpent
t:Stormguards/flamers/waveserpent
t:pathfinders

Join eldrad to the pathfinders near the walkers.
Interweave the walkers and stand the swordlord up front to provide cover to themselves if you can't find a building to put them in.
Fortune both walkers and guide one of them, or vice versa.

Put the scorpions on the ground near the walkers to keep infiltrators off.

is this a reasonable looking list? or is 25-32 wounds/turn going to be too cheesy to be fun playing against?

Gymbol wrote:Interweave the walkers to provide cover to themselves- going to be too cheesy to be fun playing against?

I think thats the only eyebrow folks might raise.

As a list it looks fairly eldary
Stormguards..I don't think mr6 has used them are you sure their any good
I might have to convince him to use your list so I can get an understanding of what your intending to do..
(I think since LH finished Gt we've been itching to jump up a couple of points brackets)
Lots of people talk smack about the running wraithlord, but I've got to say, he would draw way too much of my firepower for me to casually say I could deal with those waveserpents.Good firemagnet

Having a sacrificial wraithlord out front for everyone to shoot at tends to distract your opponent from paying too much attention to your arrangement of walkers.

But there is lots of eyebrow raising in the pieces of this that I've already actually used.

The wraithlord gets lots of attention, until it is your turn to shoot. Then the walkers should have obtained top priority...

except for the 2 waveserpents that have just tankshocked his front line of troops and are about to drop lots of troops behind his charging forces...

and the even bigger except, for the one waveserpent with firedragons and autarch that has just rammed one of his important tanks 36" from my board edge and is about to spill meltagun chiclets onto the board on his home row. (presuming they already aren't on the board because the serpent crashed.)(star engines)

The point of storm guards in my mind has always been the flameblossom affect. 2 flamers and a heavy
are a learning experience for someone that has spent lots of points on units with really good cover saves. (I.E. nob bikers) And then tankshock whatever is left.

Another point for stormguards is to run both the farseer & Yvriel with them. Yvriel & enhance is sort of nasty.

=====
Uhm... if a unit takes 25% casualties, then fails a tankshock, they also now autofail the morale roll for unit loss. Wow, that could be ugly. Starengines just became more valuable methinks.

Gymbol wrote:h:2 units of walkers w/ scatter lasers

Interweave the walkers and stand the swordlord up front to provide cover to themselves if you can't find a building to put them in.

dont forget that in order for one of the units of WWs to get Cover, 50+% of at least one of the models in the Squadron must be obscured from view. if you do this with both units, then you are going to have difficulty firing all their weapons. plus you make them a delicious looking Ordnance magnet.

apart from that, seems solid.

~ Tim

Gymbol wrote:one waveserpent just rammed one of his important tanks 36" from my board edge (star engines)

Ahh I see that one as well, I think folks might get uppety with you,- BGB faq caps it at str 10, but some folks still maintain that you can drag that 10 across the baord another 12" inches.
warseer opinion is split.
The GT ruled it illegal

164) How do I calculate the ram value for Eldar skimmers using Star Engines (which adds 12” to its move in the shooting phase)? For example, if the skimmer moves 24”, then 12” with star engines for a total of 36”, it would get +1Str for every 3” so 12, plus 1 for being a tank, and plus 2 for AV 12, making a total of 15? It says in the Ramming rules that the strength bonus is for every 3” moved this turn, not specifically movement phase?
Ramming is performed in the movement phase therefore Star Engines have no impact on the strength calculation as they are used in the shooting phase.

Adepticon/independant tournies also said it shouldn't fly

ELD.44C.01 – Q: Can Star Engines be used to Tank
Shock or Ram in the shooting phase?
A: No [clarification].

Me and doctor tom also answered in the affirmative when you asked if you’d get shoes thrown at you.
So I can see why in a group folks raise eyebrows, when cut throat tournies of cheese have said its a cheese too far

@Tim: 50% of at least _2_ models in a walker group must be obscured. I usually stand the wraithlord in front of the one Walker that is uncovered, then the rest of the walkers can interweave so that 2 in each pod have cover from the other pod.

With 4" spacing between walker bases, even a pie plate is only going to hit 1 walker. And if it drifts more than an inch, it isn't (probably) going to do anything due to half strength.

@kmb: (shrug) I like a good rules argument as much as the next guy, but everyone I've seen arguing that "in the movement phase only" is doing it because their dog in the fight has been bitten and Eldar are the ONLY army that can do this. Certainly not because of the wording of the rules regarding star engines. So they have to fall back upon "Intent". Kind of like the guys that argue that you should get cover saves from marker light hits. (of which, btw, I am one.)

Gymbol wrote:@Tim: 50% of at least _2_ models in a walker group must be obscured.

sorry, for some reason I misread your OP and thought you said "2 units of 2".

I take it they are squadrons of 3 then?

~ Tim

Gymbol wrote:(shrug)

I'll raise you a nonchalant shrug back.
you asked for a value judgement on a list, I said it was fine, you describe tactics I change my mind based on that WAAC crazies have been told that it is one step too far by 3rd parties only interested in events passing off peacefully (some would suggest with good argueing skills).. this informs my value judgement on the matter..If your playing competitively then when you jump up a league you'll be forbidden (why not just get used to it now.. its not like eldar only have one hard build-they are one of the best) and if your playing for fun then why do something that makes the others look at you quite that way (I think I know the look, I gave it to MR6 when he created that aircraft hanger that his eldar stuff flew out of, shot me and then went back into that was indestructible and had no entry points apart from to eldar flyers..it hurt my face trying to scowl that much )

(BTW I wrote this smirking, I'm not being harsh or anything just trying to guage your group.. for example (and topical since there is a thread about it.. if you have a dark eldar player taking combat drugs.. does he become invincible.. because the rules say "he cannot be hurt")

P.p.p.p.s first post wirelessly (^&%&^£ orange liveboxes, easy pairing my arse)

@Tim Yeah, 3 walkers/squadron

@KMB I didn't mean the shrug to indicate I didn't appreciate your comment. Our gaming group has some pretty significant arguments over just exactly what does 'what' mean. We finally composed our own list of FAQs based mostly on desire (rather than informed opinion) and keep them in a binder in the store for visitors to peruse when they need enlightenment.

However, my own experience in using the Space Elf Martyr brigade has been somewhat... meh. Whereas star engines on waveserpents provide EXCELLENT mobile impassable terrain to be placed after I finish shooting. So, no more TRYING to wreck my own vehicles.

I did get to use 2 units of walkers tonight. Big mistake I didn't place Eldrad with them. I ALMOST killed a complete unit of terminators /turn (because the walkers weren't guided). Next time, 36 wounds/turn, not 24.

Couple of observations:
It is incredibly difficult to move interleaved walkers in synchrony. You have to ziz-zag them.
And running does NOT work, unless you can roll the runs at the same time.
However, running the swordlord after shooting to provide cover DOES work.
A swordlord across the board is not something an opponent is going to shoot at.

He only had a few templates, and chose not to shoot at the walkers because he was busy shooting wave serpents (and failing to penetrate.) Not sure he made the right choice there. Having serpents full of meltas in your face makes you kind of blink a bit though.

For some reason, you don't deep strike stuff right next to walkers that get cover saves.

Gymbol wrote:It is incredibly difficult to move interleaved walkers in synchrony. You have to ziz-zag them. .

If your really insistent on doing it.. (sniffle) then I think I can dig out a dakka tactica they did on how best to use interleaved units..(before the bloke stopped doing it out of moral concerns ).. I'll have a check later on in the day. (and edit here..so your morally unscrupulous ass has to keep checking the thread )

killmaimburn wrote:If your really insistent on doing it.. (sniffle) then I think I can dig out a dakka tactica they did on how best to use interleaved units

i think the problem is that with non-Vehicle non-MC units - you cant just use the "shoot through gaps" exception to gain Cover like you can with other units, 50+% of the models must be 50+% obscured from view, so you cant just move straight forward.

~ Tim

Weapons on top of wraithlords, 50% model covered guns have clear LOS,
with the infantry line up X = special weapon Y is gribbly 0 is just to fill gap

000yyxyyy
0xyyyyy
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Both the above scenarios use stuff to get cover, both can incroporate interleaving on top..
I was more refering to conquering the movement problems.

EDIT- what I mean is che gymbol is breaking 2 of the 3 friendly gamer benchmarks, so why not invite the 3rd.. Peroscoped lascannons from a lying prone dreadnought that can be covered by 4 ratlings whilst still shooting..(silly example, easy example - over slinging rather than under slinging the warwalker weapons followed by 'fleshing out' the legs so that 50% is easier to achieve)
Oh here is one of the links on movement formations(note its old and taken out of context of the other 6 threads that happened at the same time, one of which suggested lashing and pinning the grot screens to fence in orks )

Faugh for friendly games. The guys I play with come up with even MORE gribbly rules than I ever do... well... no, come to think of it I'm the gribbliest. But is not from their lack of trying. It has become a big part of the game. The most recent argument is that Banshee masks don't work anymore because grenades don't grant 'bonuses'. Poor dudes can't even think up new stuff on their own.

BTW, Lying prone dreadnaughts holding lascannons up to shoot over the ratlings in front are Ridiculous. His arms won't work. Now, a wraithlord lying prone holding up a brightlance, HIS arms would work that way. Thanks for the suggestion. (chuckle)

Also, fwiw, walkers w/ scatterlasers don't really care much about shooting through friendly units these days. And trying to interleave & move causes significant movement 'loss', very similar to rolling for difficult terrain in actual movement 'penalty'.

Thanks for the link. I'll let you know if there's anything in there I'm going to dust off and use. (grins)

Oh, one more thing. I'm in the US, so if you are going to keep me on the hook all day, your day has to start about 5pm and go through 4am. Otherwise, I'll just read both of your posts back to back. (bigger grins)

Ugh. I suppose now that I've told you that, you'll just wait a whole day to post your updates.

Its a well known fact that dreadnoughts come with useful periscopes, what is less well known is that 80% of them are affectionately called giggly mcwriggly.

You see of my original cheese production in that last post..I most liked changing the mass distribution. Imagine having so much extra armour added to your right leg that only it needs to be in cover for you to get 50%+ in cover. (now I think about it its just those 2 foot wide banners with the theory reversed….. but still )

Udaboss!!!

(laughing)