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2235 pts Chaos Space Marines (Black Legion)

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2235 pts Chaos Space Marines (Black Legion)

Postby Headhunter75 » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:45 pm

Ok I have worked on my list, and I have had 1 battle against Ben. He uses Tau and that was a hard army. So here she is


Right now the Havocs are a little scattered in what thier roles are, but when I have the opportunity I am going to replace the heavy bolter with another ML. This unit will be a Tank Hunting Squad.
Now the raptors showed me alot of promise up against Ben's Tau army but I need to buy 2 more to swap (melta & Flamer) they seem to work better with both weapons match. Against Tau the flamer was a waste against the Hammerhead tanks but the melta did alot of Damage. So I will make the decision to use meltas or Flamers when I see the other parties army.
I am also thinking of adding 5 more zerkers, to even this up to 2000. And I really wanna use Abaddon, but the question I have is am I wasting points on one model? I feel I am wasting enought of the LR which seems to draw alot of attention real quick.

Any assistance will be appreaciated. THANKS
Last edited by Headhunter75 on Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:42 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby killmaimburn » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:56 pm

(HEAVY) Land Raider Daemon Possessed = 255

- My landraider is possessed has a dozer blade and has a bought spare combi bolter (for needing more weapon destroyed to cumalatively immobilise it) and that costs 250-

I also think your zerkers are still off I make them around 285 if the rhino is included in the unit price.
I think your points need a bit of an edit\review :D
Last edited by killmaimburn on Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Headhunter75 » Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:30 pm

Well I am using this Demo Army Builder so I dont know where it is off.

Yes the Rhino is figured in and I did the numbers again and it was 305. Just learning how to use this program

Also I totally forgot about my brand new Preditor that Ben got me for Christmas so I need to add 195 to that.
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Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:41 pm

Headhunter75 wrote:Well I am using this Demo Army Builder so I dont know where it is off.

i would recommend doing any list using the codex (and FAQ if/once your army has one), a piece of paper (or text/word file if you prefer to type) and a calculator, and once you have checked it all then you make it using an army building program.

hope that helps :)

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Postby Headhunter75 » Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:54 pm

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:
Headhunter75 wrote:Well I am using this Demo Army Builder so I dont know where it is off.

i would recommend doing any list using the codex (and FAQ if/once your army has one), a piece of paper (or text/word file if you prefer to type) and a calculator, and once you have checked it all then you make it using an army building program.

hope that helps :)

~ Tim


THANKS Tim, I figured what I was doing wrg on the program, I wasnt upgrading my rhino's and champions in the program. SO I updated the list above and came up with 2085 and I added my NEW Preditor.

MAN I ever forgot my two Obliterators and that equals 150 But I fogot Ben told me that my Landraider doesnt have to be a (HEAVY) it can be used as a transport so NOW I have 3 Heavys, IS THAT OK?
Last edited by Headhunter75 on Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby killmaimburn » Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:12 am

No its not, some of your points are still way off (From what I can see prices differ from options purchased for the predator, the raptors,the termis and the landraider,the basic CSM and the beserkers- strangely through all the up and downs I make the list 2155), are you using the wolf lair version of army builder (which one? which version of the chaos file - its all hokus pokus to me but spack might be interested).

I can only strongly reinforce what Tim said, using AB like a sliding block puzzle to make stuff fit is neat and prevents having to write a list out 18 times just to make one (it also is better than most gamers handwriting as long as they correct all the wrong bits in pen over the top), but when you've made it stare hard at your codex get the right numbers, do the additionsand multiples old school on paper with a pen ( or with a calculator in front of you :D ). My most accurate list made with AB is still 5 points out (I still use 2.2, this is not a slur on a product I do not use) as it charges the wrong price for bolters and if I use apothecary upgrades (in the traited system) it charges me multiple times for the sergeant regaining his bolt pistol and closecombat weapon.

If you do not have a codex and are using the special rules listed in the program, don't. they are most of the time wrong, I won't accept it in a game if someone does something sneaky and relies on an AB printout (in one list it told me all my army had acute senses and were fearless when they weren't)Also although 1 or 2 folks on warseer say that they don't need to buy the codex as AB is cheaper, well those folks don't read small print that they tick everytime they use it see attached :D
this all sounds a little rude, but actually I'm just saying don't trust the machine, use your brain, its much better (can I be of some sort help with adding and stuff? Pm me if you want, don't expect a reply on christmas though :lol:)
I feel I need to add that its still a program I use, it still has its uses, and its still better than the competition, just don't trust it 100% ever
Last edited by killmaimburn on Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:18 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby jlong05 » Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:27 pm

I would also like to point out that the AB 2.2 version is no longer supported by Wolflair. People should upgrade to 3.x as it is a lot better in many ways. Additionally, the 2.2 version for 40k files are NO LONGER SUPPORTED and do not get updates. Any codex released the last year or two most likely have not been updated in the 2.2 version set. However the 3.x versions are regularly worked on and updated. the support site for them is http://www.ab40k.org/
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Postby Headhunter75 » Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:23 pm

killmaimburn wrote:No its not, some of your points are still way off (From what I can see prices differ from options purchased for the predator, the raptors,the termis and the landraider,the basic CSM and the beserkers- strangely through all the up and downs I make the list 2155), are you using the wolf lair version of army builder (which one? which version of the chaos file - its all hokus pokus to me but spack might be interested).

I can only strongly reinforce what Tim said, using AB like a sliding block puzzle to make stuff fit is neat and prevents having to write a list out 18 times just to make one (it also is better than most gamers handwriting as long as they correct all the wrong bits in pen over the top), but when you've made it stare hard at your codex get the right numbers, do the additionsand multiples old school on paper with a pen ( or with a calculator in front of you :D ). My most accurate list made with AB is still 5 points out (I still use 2.2, this is not a slur on a product I do not use) as it charges the wrong price for bolters and if I use apothecary upgrades (in the traited system) it charges me multiple times for the sergeant regaining his bolt pistol and closecombat weapon.

If you do not have a codex and are using the special rules listed in the program, don't. they are most of the time wrong, I won't accept it in a game if someone does something sneaky and relies on an AB printout (in one list it told me all my army had acute senses and were fearless when they weren't)Also although 1 or 2 folks on warseer say that they don't need to buy the codex as AB is cheaper, well those folks don't read small print that they tick everytime they use it see attached :D
this all sounds a little rude, but actually I'm just saying don't trust the machine, use your brain, its much better (can I be of some sort help with adding and stuff? Pm me if you want, don't expect a reply on christmas though :lol:)
I feel I need to add that its still a program I use, it still has its uses, and its still better than the competition, just don't trust it 100% ever



THANKS for the information; again I am still new to the sport and this is my first army, so I am still in training. The AB that I use is 3.1 and I realized where some of my flaws where. But either tonight or by the end of the weekend I will have my complete army up. Ben and I or trying to schedule a Apocalypse game, I think I can come up with 3000 pts ( I think ) if I can get my possessed together in time.
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Postby Ben » Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:25 pm

I am sure you will make me regret buying you a tank for Christmas. :lol:
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Postby Spack » Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:38 pm

Headhunter, are you just typing out your list based on what you see in AB? I've just tried it with the 1.28b file and some of your points are way off, I can only assume that you're not listing the options that you've actually picked. In AB go to the File menu and choose Save Text Summary, then edit that in Notepad or another text editor to remove individual points (just retain the overall unit cost), and then paste the list as that will include all the options you've picked.
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Postby Headhunter75 » Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:45 pm

OK I am going to put pen to paper RIGHT NOW and see what my results are...


CRAP, I just realized I didnt bring my Codex with me to work today, OH well I will have it for you Monday.
Last edited by Headhunter75 on Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Pen to Paper with Codex and this is what I got

Postby Headhunter75 » Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:42 pm

Ok I got the trusty ole pen, paper and my codex; oh and a calculator and this is what I came up with. I changed my list up a bit but the point are accurate.

So without further adieu

Code: Select all
(HQ)   Abbadon                                   = 275

(HQ)    Daemon Prince w/Wings    =160
                Mark of Slaanesh
                Warptime                      

(HQ)         Terminator Sorcerer                    =140
                Mark of Slaanesh
                Lash of Submission



(TROOP)   10CSM 1w/flamer 1w/meltagun    =300
Icon Bearer (mark of Slaanesh)
Champion with power Sword (all in a Rhino)    
{rhino extra amour and Dozer Blade & Havoc}

(TROOP)   10CSM 2w/meltagun                    =180
   Icon of Glory

(TROOP)   10 BerZerkers
Skull Champ w/power fist (all in Rhino)         = 320
{rhino extra amour and Dozer Blade & Havoc}

(TROOP)   10 BerZerkers 2/w plasma pistols  =240

(TRANS)        Land Raider                            = 255
{ Daemon Possessed & Havoc Launcher}

(ELITE)   5 Terminators 1/w AC                  = 265
champion, icon of Glory & autocannon         

(ELITE)   5 Possessed MoK                     =160

(HEAVY)   Predator w/LC and xtra amour     =195
{dozer blade, extra amour , combi-flamer}

(HEAVY)   5 Havocs 1w/ AC & 1w/LC & 2w/ML and Bolter     = 180

(HEAVY)   2 Obliterators                               = 150

(FAST)   8 Raptors                                     = 260
w/mark of Glory 1w/ melta gun & 1w/ flamer
1 Champion w/lightning claws & melta bombs               

(FAST)    Spawn                          = 40   3120






So does this look better?

THANKS guys for the assistance
Last edited by Headhunter75 on Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby jlong05 » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:12 pm

Probably a stupid question, but can you have 3 HQs?
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Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:14 pm

jlong05 wrote:Probably a stupid question, but can you have 3 HQs?

hint: its an Apoc list. ;)

:P

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Re: Pen to Paper with Codex and this is what I got

Postby Firecrest_inc » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:22 pm

Headhunter75 wrote:(HEAVY) 5 Havocs 1w/ AC & 1w/LC & 2w/ML and Bolter = 180
[/code]

These don't frighten me as they should, i think because you already have alot of anti tank weaponry dotted around the army already, I would use these guys as anti infantry. But other than that I don't see any problems.
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