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2250 1st Company (counts as Deathwing)

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2250 1st Company (counts as Deathwing)

Postby HOBO » Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:38 pm

OK, I'm going to take the plunge and do an all-terminator (mainly) force, seen as my AC is now going to just look pretty on the shelf, due to the
str:4 Defensive Weapons debacle.
I don't know if there are any DW players here, but I'd appreciate a 'critical eye' or 2 to have a look at my first-try list so I can fine tune it.

HQ
Belial - twin Lightning Claws (goes in one of the '3' Squads)
130 pts

ELITE
2 Dreads - TLLC/ML, Venerable, EA
380pts (190 ea)

1 Dread - AssCan, DCCW w/SB, Venerable, EA
160 pts

TROOPS
3 Squads - Sgt w/ twin Lightning Claws, 1 AssCan/CF, 3 w/ PF & SB
750 pts (250 ea)

2 Squads - Sgt w/ PF & SB, 3 w/ PF & SB, 1 w/ CML, PF & SB
480 pts (240 ea)

1 Squad - Sgt w/ twin Lightning Claws, 1 AssCan/CF, 3 w/ PF & SB,
Apothecary w/ PF & SB
275 pts

2175 pts.

Man it's hard to spend the remaining points in a DW list....all I can think of is to put CF's on everyone, but that's just silly.

List options I've thought of are to
1/ put in an Interrogator Chaplain and change 1 Squad to all LC's
2/ go the LR(C) route, but that limits my Troops and in 5th Ed the more Squads the better I think, although the Tanks are going to be a lot tougher to take down.

So, any glaring errors in the composition of my Squads?
Some things I've mulled over are
1/ putting more LC's into the Squad that Belial joins to optimise the attacks.
2/ putting a set of LC's into the CML Squads so that when the inevitable c/c begins I'll have some decent weaponry to help counter it. With "Run" in 5th Ed staying out of c/c is going to be very hard to accomplish I think.

Comments/suggestions welcome...and appreciated.
Just wait for the REAL Apocalypse.
Then you'll see SHOCK & AWE.
Amen!
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Postby jlong05 » Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:05 am

Only think I noticed was you appear to be missing the Standard Bearer. I would add him for sure. As for anything else I am unsure. Adding the Standard bumps you to 2200 pts so it only leaves 50 in your 2250 limit. There really isn't much in the codex for 50 pts or less. Maybe mount one of the Termi Squads in a Drop Pod for the added model. Although it goes against you in vpoints due to it being immobile. :(
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Postby killmaimburn » Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:11 am

You could take off a gun dread and use up your 75 non spent points.. combined thats a landraider crusader + an extra storm bolter
That leaves you only 10 points under.
Assualt termies with chaplin...( :x :wink: )eats the pants off my armies.. Ljundhammer does that.. wait for him to pop up :D . Apparently some rumours say they are getting to move into combat after deepstriking in the new smurf dex or something.(might be worth looking into how far that rule goes and how substantiated it is)
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Postby HOBO » Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:54 am

Thanks for the reply's guys.
I don't know if it's warranted or not, but from what I've gleaned from looking at heaps of army lists is that the Standard Bearer isn't worth the points, so Ive gone with the status quo on this. My Codex doesn't come until next week, so I've just gone by memory of my mate's one.

As for Drop Pods, I'm going to look into that for sure, and probably for multiple Squads. An LRC for Belial and his Squad would be great as the LRC is going to get a big buff in 5th if the rumours pan out as has been suggested. I have a spare Termi Chappy so 1 box of c/c Termi's and it's done. They may be too good actually as they'd probably be caught in the open after wiping out their target enemy squad. Still...they'd be sweet.

I worked out that to get to 3K all I need to do is add 3 LR varients and I'm virtually there.

Thanks for the help.
Just wait for the REAL Apocalypse.
Then you'll see SHOCK & AWE.
Amen!
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Postby Herne » Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:29 pm

I disagree on Belials standard - ok the morale advantages are poor for a fearless army - but any terminator unit in 12" gets +1A - that's great - espescially if the units have lc weapons.

Ok - I usually take a chaplain in term armour as my second HQ - in a unit full of LCs, and with his special rule applying to the unit, they get an evil re-roll - lc's reroll to hit and to wound! Running the maths probablitity, (sorry to sound a nerd,) a full squad of 5, with chaplain, within 12" of Belials banner, on the charge get opportunity to inflict a potential 19 to 20 wounds with power weapons. (Based against a ws4, T4 opponent). This increases if the opponent has weaker toughness or lower WS! Pretty good in my book.

I find the less useful option is the second hq as a librarian, although some of the psy powers can be useful. I prefer the chaplain though - try out the math with some of the other weapons - belials banner with thunderhammers? Belials banner and chaplain with power fists? how about a mixed weapon unit - some claws and some hammers? Lot's of nice options when U start looking. :)

Sadly the best character to have in your DW army is an imperial fist! Lysander is great - he can deepstrike your entire terminator cadre in one go - that way you don't come on piecemeal! what a shame he won't paint his armour white.... :roll:
Last edited by Herne on Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby HOBO » Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:41 pm

Thanks Herne....I shall look at the Standard Bearer closer when my Codex comes in a couple of days. It does sound good, and there should be a few Squads within 12" to take advantage of it, so yea I'll look into it.

I think I'm going to go with a Chappy and c/c Squad as it'll give me some different tactical options to play with, and a Squad with Claws and Thunder Hammers/Shields would look pretty damn sweet as well.

And no mate I won't be going yellow. I looked at the Lysanderwing, but having to take 2 Scout Squads kind of ruins the ALL TDA feel, so nah!
I might use his mini though to make Belial...well "counts as" anyway.

What is people's take on Drop Pods, as in
- take a few
- all or none
- 1 is OK

Thanks for any help.
Just wait for the REAL Apocalypse.
Then you'll see SHOCK & AWE.
Amen!
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Postby Herne » Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:53 pm

HOBO wrote:And no mate I won't be going yellow. I looked at the Lysanderwing, but having to take 2 Scout Squads kind of ruins the ALL TDA feel, so nah!
I might use his mini though to make Belial...well "counts as" anyway.


Nah - I never wanted to go over the the yellow brigade - jsut wanted him recruited to my codex. Let's face it - Lysander is what Belial SHOULD be.

I was lucky enough to get my hands on the terminator captain body and some spare lightning claws that I turn into Belials LC option. I'd already got the original model too - so I have two of his options. He's a great model for an older one - and was the one Belial was based on anyway - so he suits me fine. I've also got a converted Lysander that I use as my second Terminator Chaplain - I figure he passes for Belphegor from the Forgeworld book.


HOBO wrote:What is people's take on Drop Pods, as in
- take a few
- all or none
- 1 is OK


My four penneth is that in a DW army they are fairly redundant - Terminators can deep strike by Teleport anyway. I have used them before with the dreads though - there's nothing more freaky for your opponent than to have 3 assault cannons appear BEHIND their tanks. 'Oh - Mr Lamarr - are those YOUR rear hatches.......'
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Postby HOBO » Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:25 am

I was thinking of the Dreads when I mentioned the Drop Pods, but having just 1 AssCan Dread in a DP would probably be suicide. I could make them all AssCan Dreads in DP's, but I'd be limiting my AT capability too much I feel...plus I'd need to rejig the list to get enough points for the 3rd DP anyway, so too much trouble probably.

Thanks Herne for the help.
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Then you'll see SHOCK & AWE.
Amen!
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Postby Weyco » Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:36 am

"Herne wrote"
"Running the maths probablitity, (sorry to sound a nerd,) a full squad of 5, with chaplain, within 12" of Belials banner, on the charge get opportunity to inflict a potential 19 to 20 wounds with power weapons."

why would a fearless unit of DW benefit from being within 12" of belials banner?

Belials banner allows any dark angel unit within 12" to re-roll failed morale test. And any model in the standard bearers unit get +1 attack..
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Postby Herne » Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:12 am

Weyco wrote:why would a fearless unit of DW benefit from being within 12" of belials banner?

Belials banner allows any dark angel unit within 12" to re-roll failed morale test. And any model in the standard bearers unit get +1 attack..


Apols - misread that bit - U R right - the banner wouldn't benefit those in 12" - but I still feel the +1A on the unit is pretty fantastic.






ok with that?
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Postby Weyco » Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:15 am

it sure is.. DW with lightclaws in the banners unit get 5 attacks on the charge. and like you said, get a chaplain in the unit and you get to re-roll to hit as well as to re-roll to wound. 30 attacks with that isnt to bad..
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Postby Herne » Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:02 pm

I have used them several times - they kill most things pretty quick. :lol:
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Postby Ljundhammer » Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:11 am

Hello,

I just wrote a massive trieste on not liking it, before realising I'd ms-read your list - bugger!

It's not bad. It's not how I'd do it, but it's ok.

Why no Land Raiders? I use 2 at 1500 & they are invaluable as transports. Your army is very, very slow. I'd be concerned fighting anything with fast, long range shooting (Eldar, dark Eldar, Necrons), or a lot of AP1/2 on high AV tanks - as you will have difficulty popping them (predators, Land Raiders, Leman Russes, Falcons) - but that is pretty much par for the course when you're the Wing.

At 2250 my list would look a little like this:

Belail - lightning claws
Chaplain (or swap out for a dread with EA & TLLC)
2 x Assault cannon squads
2 x Cyclone missile launcher squads (one with an appocothary)
1 x heavy flamer squad
2 x Land Raiders
1 x Land Raider Crusader

Try not to mix squad roles - if it's shooty - give them all guns, if it's assaulty give them all assault weapons (except for special weapon). I do run an assault squad - but it's all thunder hammers because they sound cooler in my head... I expect that claws with a H Flamer & powerfist would work better...

Keep apocetharies out of combat - they don't work in combat. Don't bother with a banner - everything should be dead anyway - use a chaplain instead (remember that your standard & apocethary have to be in the same squad) if you really feel the need. Don't expect Belail to do anything & he will surprise you - expect him to take out tooled up characters & he will be dead very fast (the best use I have for him is as a 3 wound bullet shield for another squad... he's a mini-apocethary:))

Remember the DeathWing Mantra:
1. Concentrate your fire
2. Assault on your terms
3. Trust in the Emperor

In other words, you will be outnumbered, outgunned & out manouvered in most games. Try to take out their squads piecemeal, whilst reducing the level of possible return fire.

Here's the DeathWing Tactica:
http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.ph ... 3&page=201
You'll need the last 20 pages or so...

It takes A LOT of practice & A LOT of losing to get it to work, but when it does it's a fuzzy warm feeling...

Good luck.
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Postby HOBO » Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:06 pm

Thanks for the reply...Hmmmm lots to think about.
I'll redo my list after mulling things over. I might do a hybrid one, and incorporate some of your builds. I see what you're saying about specializing squads.

cheers!
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Then you'll see SHOCK & AWE.
Amen!
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