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Army lists for 6th, now we know what we're doing (ish)...

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Army lists for 6th, now we know what we're doing (ish)...

Postby Ljundhammer » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:03 am

Snappy title out of the way, I've dumped the old thread because I *think* I've learned what I need to have learned about IG.

I now need to put my head above the parapit and say, loud and clear, these lists should work.

I've started with IG, and have been playing it (to KMB's disgust) pretty exclusively since 6th came out.

Things that I have learned have shaped this list, but here we are with a brief list of what these things are:
1) IG don't really need allies. Given enough firepower stuff tends to die. Firepower that isn't IG is more expensive & dilutes the effect

2) Vehicles are really bad in assault. Really, really, really bad. Given that mech-vets need to put 10 crappy IG & a vehicle near the enemy to shoot then they will be assaulted (or multicharged) and both will die.

3) To get assault or charge absorbing capability, IG need blobs. If you're investing in a blob anyway, then 50 points for some power weapons to kill nasty people isn't a bad investment.

4) Vehicles + blobs doesn't work too well. Especially mech vets. Blobs clog up the front lines & vehicles struggle to get past to kill anything. In addition you can't get the mech saturation needed to absorb losses.

So here we go. The New Galaxy Order army.

HQ: CCS - 80 points (warlord)
Autocannon, camo cloaks

HQ: CCS - 60 points
Autocannon

Troop: Platoon 1 - 360 points
PCS - 3 x plasma guns
Blob - 30 men + commissar, krak grenades, power axe x 4, melta bombs x 3, flamer x 3

Troop: Platoon 2 - 520 points
PCS - 3 x plasma guns
Blob - 30 men + commissar, krak grenades, power axe x 4, melta bombs x 3, flamer x 3
SWS - 3 x plasma guns
SWS - 3 x plasma guns

Troop: Platoon 3 - 570 points
PCS - 3 x plasma guns
Infantry squad - auto cannon
Infantry squad - auto cannon
HWS - 3 x auto cannon
HWS - 3 x auto cannon
HWS - 3 x auto cannon
SWS - 2 x melta, demo charge
SWS - 2 x melta, demo charge

Fast - Vendetta - 130

Fast - Vendetta - 130

Total: 1850
Troops: 133
13 scoring units blobbed up

Fairly simple really. I have a pretty static firebase of autocannons to take out transports & then concentrate on heavier stuff & flyers (with orders) of:
2 x HQs (4 orders for rerolling hits) with autocannons
2 x infantry squads with autocannons
3 x HWS with 3 autocannons each,
and I can keep a couple of plasma SWS back if I need to to stop people getting fruity with my back lines

I have a forward element of 2 blobs which can wreck pretty much anything (except Khorne bikers, as I discovered this week, but you can't have it all), backed up wioth a load of plasma guns

Then I have some Vendettas full of melta & demo charges for suff I can't see or that needs some "special attention".

I'm hoping that this army will give a multitude of threats that an opponent can't decide between, or can't kill them all off. In addition, I don't care about your flyers, and I can kill them with rerolling autocannons & flyers of my own.


Thoughts?
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Re: Army lists for 6th, now we know what we're doing (ish)...

Postby mattjgilbert » Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:14 pm

I've started reading the 6th ed rules finally...

Blobs? Blobbed up? You lost me there.
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Re: Army lists for 6th, now we know what we're doing (ish)...

Postby Angelwing » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:29 am

Blobs: guard infantry squads in a platoon (basic guard units, not infantry type models) can group together into one squad to create a big single squad.
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Re: Army lists for 6th, now we know what we're doing (ish)...

Postby killmaimburn » Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:50 am

Matt has finally started a memory dump of constantly playing against and reading about guard in 5th edition ;).

list is interesting,(in that you play tanks tanks tanks and this is more how I'd take em) I still think guard horde requires super hq/synergy..I think if you can get 10more basic grunts to sometimes swap out and ride in the the cheesewings you'll do a lot better late in the game.rather than just hold or break, liking the vast numbers of plas but will it hit?

css just having 1 autocannon kind of rules you out of using warlord traits, but then unit cap and guard generally does that anyway. good choice slay the warlord doesn't get anything else (shooting it off the table for game vp is ignoring every actual threat). I approve.

think its sad you couldn't make space for a /2 basilisks, I could then be linking to tactica threads from 5/6 years back showing how all worldly guff is cyclical.
I see an awful lot of challenge resistance, but also 2 'the dam breaks ' weaknesses that can't be fixed?
hands up for a sweety where,in 6th, is this list weak (not you lh)
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Re: Army lists for 6th, now we know what we're doing (ish)...

Postby Ljundhammer » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:30 am

You've hit the nail on the head for the hq units. Not enough of a threat themselves to shoot, but they boost the threats, so should you shoot them or not??? The warlord has camo cloaks to make the decision harder...

Originally this had 2 bassies instead of the flyers, but the vendettas are so much better it's silly.

On plasma actually hitting. Well there's enough that some will, but the bark is the effect I need more than the bite.

I'm intrigued where you think it's weak too - are you turning into stelek?
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Re: Army lists for 6th, now we know what we're doing (ish)...

Postby Cain Tiberius » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:36 am

I'd say it was vulnerable to large blast weapons personally. Also once The Vendetta's are down, there is little defence against air.

But certainly has a good gun line and enough men to hold objectives (if you can get there)
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Re: Army lists for 6th, now we know what we're doing (ish)...

Postby Ljundhammer » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:58 am

Agreed on the large blasts. However, proper spacing and decent use of cover and assault for a couple of turns until the flyers turn up should mitigate that.

Flyers don't really bother me that much. With over 100 bodies on the field the army is designed to work such that no matter what you kill, there's more left where it came from. There aren't many flyers that can kill enough troops for me to worry about.

I think that the Av13 necron flyer things are where this list is potentially weak, as only my flyers have much chance of downing them. Flamer templates are also the bane of this list, as unlike blasts they are hard to avoid by placing of models in the unit and impossible to get cover from.
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Re: Army lists for 6th, now we know what we're doing (ish)...

Postby killmaimburn » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:50 am

Everyone else playing rock paper scissors somebodys got to round here :lol: The answer, the return to the lushness of 4th ed.
You've got (no unit pricing, gah,) aprrox a third of your army reliant on commisars and the HQ in the command blob to be viable- any/most armies I can think of can get rid of them if their general/god isn't lazy.
>Indirect ordinance on commisars head.
>Thundernator Sergeant on commissar/scout sergeant firing a quad gun backed up by even more snipers- a shedload of precision shots...
>and thats after not accepting challenges so losing 1 ld point.

Suggest drop second CSS (60) and bigger squads commisar (45) for commisar lord (90 axe and cloak inc)instead ..for better look out sir 2+ instead of 4+, and commander sneaky pants/ official- 30 blokes get stealth which will stack with shrouding (24"-36" nightfighting) giving them a BASIC 4+ cover save in the open(now you can lol at everything bar teardrop templates), keep him near the back and the HWSs will benefit from his leadership rather than one hit melting of the table.Hitting meq on 3s, 2 additional wounds a 5+ invulnerable,ld10, and in CC he's just part of the gumph now, just as snipable as a regular commisar but many more protections.With his statline there are even some Ch's you won't run away from in thunderdome challenges. You lose some orders, gain 15 points...heck give him a fist..he's hitting bikes on 3s killing on 2s..much bigger dead pile :twisted: , you can choose to lose the second commisar and point jiggy to get the 2nd css back, but that forces you to close phalanx too much IMO...
Oh wait, ignore all the above.. 8O
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Re: Army lists for 6th, now we know what we're doing (ish)...

Postby Ljundhammer » Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:48 pm

Not sure stealth pants still works on the commissar - do ICs give it to squads, I thought squads gave it to ICs now...

Still Lord Commissar is a good idea to add to a blob, or make all my orders Ld 10.

IG IC's always run away from challenges, that's what sergeants are for!

You make a good point on precision shots though... Unfortunately.
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Re: Army lists for 6th, now we know what we're doing (ish)...

Postby killmaimburn » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:29 pm

p39 special rules (for ICsin USR section)
"unless specified in the rule itself(...)...an independent character special rules are not conferred upon the unit Special rules that are conferred only apply for as long as the IC is with them." (from headache 3 second memory)

There are 2 types of USR.. there are
1"A unit that contains at least one model with this rule" (monster hunter,fearless stealh, Infiltrate (although that comes "with extra rules)crusader

2"For each model with..". (furious charge,hammer of wrath, hatred,FNP,EW,it will not die,Jink,
2a>weapons with (Interceptor,master crafted,melta)

Fear isn't worded the same but falls under 1.And fleet whilst slightly differently worded is still clearly 2 (it even repeats itself to make it clear)

During the weekend I got (slightly) arsy, because above.. I didn't know which one sweeping had been categorised as, if you had a termie IC but also a load of int8s could the int 8s sweep.p27 "under disallowed" when a victorius model contains one or more models that are not allowed(fail).. category 1.

Its weird its so clearly awesomely written to me, but I think I've done this patronising lecture like 9 times now.

I suggest that having a very clear division for "if any one model contains something" it transfers, is the threshold stated in "unless in the rule itself"..I can't see another.
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Re: Army lists for 6th, now we know what we're doing (ish)...

Postby Ljundhammer » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:36 pm

Must admit I haven't looked it up myself, I'll check it tonight. If it transfers as you intimate, he definately gets it.
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Re: Army lists for 6th, now we know what we're doing (ish)...

Postby killmaimburn » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:38 pm

Nail in coffin, bit I missed through laziness and only just spotted. in p39.. it has an example.. "like stubborn" for ones that explicitly cross over..
Stubborn is a clear category 1 wording, there is nothing else exceptional in it..so the dividing line is "any unit with at least one model".
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Re: Army lists for 6th, now we know what we're doing (ish)...

Postby ruffian4 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:26 pm

Ig faq 1.1.

Page 71 – Other Equipment, Camo Cloaks
Replace the second sentence with “A model wearing a camo
cloak adds +1 to its cover save”.
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Re: Army lists for 6th, now we know what we're doing (ish)...

Postby Ljundhammer » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:29 pm

Ah, boo. I knew there must have been a reason I wasn't using it...
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Re: Army lists for 6th, now we know what we're doing (ish)...

Postby killmaimburn » Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:15 am

Poor guard always nerfed at every turn, oh no wait a minute!
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