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Army lists for 6th

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Re: Army lists for 6th

Postby killmaimburn » Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:54 pm

Well I've tried to encourage LH to try it out, you don't auto get divination, so you can't assume you will have a guy suddenly grant a 50 man blob reroll to hits forever, but there are some sexy things in there.
My tzeentch list uses a lot of the telepathy table because if I roll something with a warp charge of 2 I can use it (where as I think you can't).. the default power of 3d6-ld =number of people dead is a V nice shooting power easily worth the swap from doombolt for me.
IF you roll a 3 on biomancy (2 rolls) you could give a giant blob relentless,feel no pain AND it will not die special rules.
If you roll right on something you can hit every vehicle in a squadron with haywires.
the right roll can give him the whole necrons/ librarian and termies are sucked off the table and deepstruck elsewhere to hold an objective power.
Pyromancy basically gives him different types of gun.
Theres a lot which try to make him close combat/regenerate, which frail human things really don't want.
Thats the basics from what I see as your point of view.

Reasons for commisar blob from non guard player;
1. Huge tarpit relatively cheap whilst still allowing 9/10ths of your army to be other stuff, you can still MSU other stuff everywhere else.
2. 5th ed error of no retreat meant that large stubborn squad was much more fearless and resilient than actual fearless warriors.(you had to fail 3 leadership tests in a row before leadership became even a mild issue)
3. Created a fighting force GREATER than an orc tide if you had creed and a few other buffs and designed it a certain way ( but that negates 1)
4) Less demands on the HQs, 1 UNit requires front rank fire second rank fire..done=60shots.Got them taking fire, 1 order 20+ men duck down for 2+ saves.
5) deployment shenangans, I'm stillnot up on 6th ed missions but in 5th ed, being able to put 50 men down when everyone else has to limit themselves to 5-10 men your controlling the table early on.
-When did one guard missile launcher actually take down a tank, it always took a few so blobbing didn't really effect the MSU firebase thing.
Random video from some guy which might have some more reasons

I don't have a clue about 6th and second your cry for someone who knows what they're talking about :D
EDIT- 6th ed being able to snipe out the commisar does weaken it a chunk (I'd forgotten about that again :D )
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Re: Army lists for 6th

Postby markb » Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:22 pm

Interesting. I'll have to get the rulebook when I'm back in Blighty in a couple of days to see if a Primaris is worth it, never actually used one since 2nd ed, think I've still got the original model somewhere.

Still don't know about blobbing, like I said I'm a traditionalist and a fluff player but might give it a go and see if its any better. Would probably blob the two footslogger platoons and leave the mech inf platoon to capture objectives. Think that a single Valkyrie might be too much of a "please shoot me" so might drop it and put the vets in a Chimera instead. With the points saved I might retcon my fluff to add Commissars. Think its going to have to get some serious playtesting though, I haven't really used the IG much under the new Codex so really don't know, I used to know them inside out, got my highest ever placing in a GT with the IG (11th) and won a couple of regionals with them. This was under the last two Codexes so was done without blobbing as well.

The thing is I'm one of those players who would rather win a game through my own tactical brilliance (or not) and knowing my army back to front than through rules and list manipulation. That's not taking anything away from people who do it's just my preference. Like the bloke in the video said, he was generally hopeless with the IG until he discovered blobbing whereas I have been very successful previously with them. That sounds really conceited I know but its true. It's like my vanilla SM, most people agree that the SM Codex is showing its age and is generally underpowered compared to newer Codexes but I can still give people a game, mostly, as I know my army inside out as it has been largely unchanged for about 7 or 8 years.
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Re: Army lists for 6th

Postby killmaimburn » Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:41 pm

markb wrote:The thing is I'm one of those players who would rather win a game through my own tactical brilliance (or not) and knowing my army back to front than through rules and list manipulation..
You do know this is a lists thread in the lists forum that you posted your list in, right?
That a codex adding a platoon over 10 years isn't some secret cheat code. :wink:
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Re: Army lists for 6th

Postby markb » Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:47 pm

Yeah I know, its just some of us are afraid of change ;) Think the point I'm trying to make though is that I was very successful pre blobbing and it would be interesting to see if it carries over or if you have to blob now to get the same level of success.

Seriously though, think I'll try it with blob and none blob, just worked out that if I drop the CCS lascannon and change the Valkyrie for a Chimera I can get 2 normal Commissars, albeit not tooled up, for the blob squads. Just have to see how it goes.
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Re: Army lists for 6th

Postby Ljundhammer » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:07 pm

OK, IG doesn't work the way I thought it would in 6th.

I need long range guns to out long-range my opponent. In 5th, I never needed to do this as my entire army (bar hydras which are nerfed slightly) was a mid-range control list. This, I think, isn't viable, so I need to fill some gaps. I'll have a think & get back to this later...
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Re: Army lists for 6th

Postby killmaimburn » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:27 pm

I know I know, I'm a broken record.. but lascannon heavy squadsx9 for some chuckles? Hold off the dark voices saying vendettas till the last possible minute.
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Re: Army lists for 6th

Postby ruffian4 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:10 pm

killmaimburn wrote:FAQ "A model can generate powers from different disciplines if you wish""Ahriman generates 3 new powers", so is it an all or nothing?We can’t keep one and roll 2 for example?

Still only read the rules twice and haven't gone through the faq's, but ...
... I don't recall seeing it in the rulebook, but in the psy deck booklet (this is the same for other armies) ...

A blood angels librarian may use the psychic disciplines found in the 40k rulebook INSTEAD of those in the codex. If so for each powre purchased, generate new powers from (listed disciplines) (paraphrased).

Sounds like all or nothing + you should have bought the psy deck to me. :twisted:
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Re: Army lists for 6th

Postby Ljundhammer » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:39 pm

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's all or nothing, but I don't have a page reference handy - I assume it'll be in the FAQs?
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Re: Army lists for 6th

Postby markb » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:31 pm

LH, maybe my none blobbed army might work better now :)
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Re: Army lists for 6th

Postby killmaimburn » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:02 am

:lol: :lol: :lol: Smacked down. :D
But it should be noted that his blob tarpit is the only thing that did what it should.. it didn't run,it didn't melt to one unit shooting at it, it (with 50% assistance from plasma vets) killed 365 of troop+HQ..the only stuff he did kill and just sat on a further 370 (2 bikes squads) in close combat, yes they would have lost the combat eventually but for only 230points what do you expect.So if we're crass and try to quantify it 230 stopped 740 from doing what it wanted to do.
His (almost base) objective being an exploder is an incredible doomboom for a sluglike tarpit though agreed.
hope it was an acceptable read :wink:
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Re: Army lists for 6th

Postby Ljundhammer » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:40 am

The problem with blobs is they are incredibly inefficient, and always have been. What they do is shoot for a couple of turns, then tie up as much of your opponent's army as possible while your army shoots at a lower precentage of your opponent's.

The blob part did what it should, unfortunately the larger % of mine had a very small effect on the smaller % of his. This was down to a lack of long range shooting in my army - in effect his smaller %'age was far more efficient than my larger %age.

This is difficult to solve for IG where the only access to cheap lascannons (in the predator mould) are on vendettas. Thaty's not a problem (as they can be fliers or skimmers depending on your need), but it is a problem for me, as I don't own any!

I'm definately not loving Russes in this edition, they are sitting ducks for flyers and, while slightly less inefficent than before, you are still spending the thick end of 200 points per tank for an inaccurate pie plate. Artilliary looks a good move, I may bust out the basilisks again...
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Re: Army lists for 6th

Postby markb » Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:58 pm

You could always go for lascannon Sentinels for some cheap lascannon action. I agree about ordnance & blast markers in general. I've said a few times now that the only version of the game that ever got it right imo is 2nd where you placed the template, rolled to hit using BS, if hit it stayed where it was if not it scattered. Yes, I broke & bought the rule book, just hate the thought of missing out!
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Re: Army lists for 6th

Postby markb » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:34 pm

Thought I'd dig my Tau out (when I can finally get back in the loft after my kitchen is built as its full of all the crap form there) and try a 6th ed list. Comments welcome.

HQ
Shas'el
Plasma rifle, missile pod, multi tracker, hard wired drone controller with 2 gun drones
107

Body Guard
2 XV8's with plasma rifles, missile pods and multi trackers

Elites
3 XV8s with plasma rifles, burst cannons, multi trackers and Shas'vre

Troops
2 x 10 Fire Warriors with photon grenades and Shas'ui
2 x 120

10 Fire Warriors with pulse carbines, photon grenades and Shas'ui
Devilfish
200

14 Kroot with Shaper and armour
141

Fast Attack
8 Path Finders with 2 rail rifles, photon grenades and Shas'ui
Devilfish
214

Heavy Support
Hammerhead with rail gun, burst cannons, multi tracker, target lock and blacksun filter
170

Sky Ray with smart m,issiles, multi tracker, targeting array and blacksun filter
165

2 XV88s with smart missiles, blacksun filters and team leader with hard wired drone controller and marker drone
181

Total - 1746

4 scoring units isn't a lot but with decent armour and defensive grenades should hold out for a while. I think bonding knives have lost their effectiveness in 6th as you always have a chance to rally so dropped them. My old tactic of giving the Fire Warrior Shas'uis target locks and marker lights won't work any more as the FAQs have nerfed infantry and battlesuit target locks and said they now have no effect, think this might b****r the Tau up a bit.
"The guns have stopped because we are at last about to attack. Even our generals aren't mad enough to shell their own men, they think its far more sporting to let the Germans do it!"

Capt Edmund Blackadder, the Somme, 1917.

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Re: Army lists for 6th

Postby Ljundhammer » Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:14 pm

Nnnnnyahhhh. For Tau, I'd say allies are mandatory. Tau troops are pants, but elites & heavy are awesome. If you aren't spending points os suits & allied troops (or adding Tau suits to another army) I think they'll struggle...

Anyway, back to IG. I was on my sickbed yesterday thinking about Guard.

Here are my thoughts:
1) I need more tank busting at range
2) blobs are inefficent
3) Hydras, while I love them, don't seem to be very good
4) I need more tanks because they die too quickly, and I need higher armour tanks

So with that in mind, I've gone for full on 5th ed Mech MSU - will it work? Only the Emperor knows.

IG 1750:

HQ: CCS - 140
3 x melta, krak grenades
Chimera

Elite: Stormtroopers - 105
2 x melta

Troop: Platoon - 370
PCS - 3 x plasma gun, chimera
Troop 1 - plasma gun, chimera
Troop2 - plasma gun, chimera

Troop: Platoon - 360
PCS - 3 x plasma gun, chimera
Troop 1 - melta gun, chimera
Troop2 - melta gun, chimera

Fast: Devil dog - 140
Multi melta, smoke launchers

Fast: Devil dog - 140
Multi melta, smoke launchers

Heavy - Leman Russ - 165
Lascannon

Heavy - Leman Russ - 165
Lascannon

Heavy - Leman Russ - 165
Lascannon

Total: 1750
60 infantry
12 tanks (3 AV14, 9 AV12)

That gives me prodigious amounts of anti tank firepower at long range with the 3 battlecannons, 2 devil dogs (who can fire both melta weapons while moving 12") and a squad of meltastormtroopers appearing in the opponents backfield. The chimeras are lower down the threatlist meaning that they can pull out some suppresion fire.

In terms of anti infantry, the Russes can do that (and with 3, one should hit), and all the chimeras, with plasma everywhere (with that many, some might hit).

I quite like this list - my feverish brain seems to have been working...
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Re: Army lists for 6th

Postby markb » Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:14 pm

I agree Tau are a bit poo, too expensive & a firepower army with BS3 is not a good combo, but I like a challenge. :)
"The guns have stopped because we are at last about to attack. Even our generals aren't mad enough to shell their own men, they think its far more sporting to let the Germans do it!"

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