Hello, I've been getting back to 40k recently and since I had like a million terminators lying around I thought I'd do something unorthodox. Though my chapter is Imperial Fists, I really do love my tactical terminators and figured I might as well try a counts-as Deathwing list for this purpose. To add some staying power, anti-horde/AV/MEQ capability and general mayhem, I decided to fill it out with my three Vindicators which are also very fluffy here in addition to all other good qualities.

Played one game against a reasonably friendly Chaos list (a crapload of plasma, but loads of C:SMs and some terminators and no cult troops or DPs) which was a draw. I used more homogenous squads for that, and decided I should go all out with the differing equipment on every model as every armor-ignoring shot counts here.

I dubbed this the "Phalanx Wing".

The idea is to roll the Vindicators forward shooting everything in sight, and put one AC squad on the ground at the start. Don't go first if possible but rather try and avoid fire during opponent's first turn, and then roll forwards. Put the other three in reserves and DWA two on the first turn - "Belial" and his command squad, and one of the other two depending on situation.

C&C welcome!

[HQ] Darnath "Belial" Lysander (storm shield, thunder hammer) @ 130

[Troops] Terminator squad @ 270
Sargeant w/ SB/PS
SB/PF
SB/PF/Narthecium
TH/SS
AC/PF

[Troops] Terminator squad @ 250
Sargeant w/ SB/PS
SB/PF
SB/CF
TH/SS
AC/PF

[Troops] Terminator squad @ 250
Sargeant w/ SB/PS
SB/PF
SB/CF
TH/SS
AC/PF

[Troops] Terminator squad @ 225
Sargeant w/ TLC
TLC
SB/PF
SB/CF
HF/PF

[HS] Vindicator @ 125

[HS] Vindicator @ 125

[HS] Vindicator @ 125

TOTAL 1500

Just use a regular marine force, the deathwing is underpowered and besides, Belial is a ponce compared to Lysander!

Lysander makes most people look like a ponce lol.

Yeah, I'm pretty happy with Lysander but you just can't take that many Terminator squads anymore and they're not scoring or Fearless unlike here. I know Deathwing is not the strongest list out there, but it's not entirely bad and Vindicators complement Terminators nicely.

if you really like terminators then IMO the DW is the best for you..

maybe add a landraider crusader, a chaplain and some lightning claws terminators.

the thunder hammer/storm shield combo is really not worth it, and i usually upgrade the Sgt's power sword to a chain fist..

Good moaning!

Hello vytzka (did you drop something on your keyboard whilst choosing that name?), welcome to Aos & welcome to the DeathWing!

People constantly harp on about how bad the DA codex is, but, given that it's the only place to go if you want a terminator army, it's not all that bad! I've been mucking about with DeathWing for a couple of years now, and I'll let into a secret - they're actually quite good!

There are a few ways to play DeathWing:
1) Pure DeathWing (that's me) - only units allowed - Belial, IC member of the inner circle (pretty much anyone in terminator armour, and the ICs except Sammael), terminators, dreadnoughts (should only be venrable, but let's not get that picky), and Land Raiders
This splits into 2 basic playing styles:
Assaulty - load up in crusaders & charge the enemy with a butt-load of lightning claws & heavy flamers
Shooty - load up on crusaders & take as many assault annons as possible (this is what I do)

2) SiegeWing - as you have above, it's DeathWing, but with vindicators - what's not to love?

3) DoubleWing - using some elements of RavenWing to get the teleport homers to allow acurate deepstrike

There are a few things I recomend & advise against when you play DeathWing:
1) read the Warseer tactica DeathWing (I'm Russell's Teapot at Warseer) - it'll give a good insight into how the army works, what you can use to your advantage & how to win with the worst codex GW produce

2) Never, ever, ever, ever, ever deepstrike unless you have the best reason ever. There really is no reason to deepstrike, either you are assulting (in which case you are in a landraider), or you are shoooting & everything has an overlapping 24" zone of death eminating from it. By deepstriking, you weaken your shooting, weaken your counter-assault defence, and weaken your vehicles.

3) Learn how far 24" is. This is your prime killing point, at 24" you have full effect of your guns, whilst others need to get to 12" to rapid fire. Use this to your advantage, keeping moving & shooting. Other useful ranges:
6" - are you in assault range (you can't back away enough, so may as well shoot the snot out them, then plant enough powerfists to sink a Gargant in their faces)
12" - is the enemy in range to assault you next turn (if so, step back)
21.5" - the enemy is with assault range from a land raider (12" move, 2" diembark, 1.5" base width, 6" charge)

4) Expect to lose (a lot) to start with. DeathWing is a precision tool, until you get to grips with how the army works, you will get spanked regularly.

5) Never, ever, ever, ever, ever take TH&SS - it's to all intents & purposes the same as a powerfist in CC & you lose all the benefits of shooting - even before you compare it to the SMurf version it's a liability. Same goes for the cyclone - it isn't good at killing tanks, it isn't good at killing infantry & it doesn't match the squads shooting range - pointless.

6) In small points (I count 1500 as small), appothecaries aren't worth it. Take 2 ICs (you normally only have 3 squads at this point level), attach one to a squad each & appoint wounds to them first (obviously not ID weapons) - then you can lose 3 wounds from shooting before terminators start dieing!

7) Not all wargear is the same! Chainfists are a bone of contention - I always use them, as the only guarenteed way of taking out a Soul Grinder or Ironclad, others disagree. Smoke launchers on land raiders are bunk - you get it free with PotMS, so save your points.

Tank killing - never worry about killing tanks - assault cannons are, I fing, the best point for point tank killers in the game, then you've got powerfists on everyone - tank killing is not a problem!

9) Charging - if possible, if you charge, try to assault more than one unit if possible - the reason being that you have enough killing power to annhilate a squad, leaving you standing in the open like an idiot when they run away. 2 squads mean that they are less likekly to break when you win, meaning that you get another round of beating the snot out of them & you can't be shot - yay! Just be careful of powerfists!

Here's the DeathWing list I use for competative play:

DeathWing - 1,500pts

Belial - TLCs (it doesn't matter how you equip him, except never give him a TH&SS - he's one of 2 ways we can I5 power weapons, don't waste that for a cruddy weapon you wouldn't put on a normal terminator)

Chaplain - terminator armour

DeathWing squad:
Sargeant - PW/SB
Terminator - PF/HF
Terminator - CF/SB
Terminator - PF/SB
Terminator - PF/SB This is standard shooty squad set up (except that I'd rather have an assault cannon instead of the heavy flamer) It has 4 different model types, meaning wound allocation is easy, without comprimising the offensive capabilities of the unit. This squad also rides with an IC - meaning that the squad has a free apothecary.

DeathWing squad:
Sargeant - PW/SB
Terminator - PF/AC
Terminator - CF/SB
Terminator - PF/SB
Terminator - PF/SB As above, but with an assault cannon - bread and butter squad

DeathWing squad:
Sargeant - PW/SB
Terminator - PF/AC
Terminator - CF/SB
Terminator - PF/SB
Terminator - PF/SB

Land Raider Crusader

Land Raider Crusader

Ok, so the army, as you can tell, works at 24", but with the chaplain & Belail and 2 crusaders, it can be used as a very good assault force.

At 24", the army gets the following shots:
2 x BS5 stormbolter shots
24 x BS4 stormbolter shots
8 x BS4 assault cannon shots
8 x BS4 twin-linked assault cannon shots
12 x BS4 twin linked bolter shots
2 x BS2 multi-melta shots (assuming you have moved)

That's a lot! Charging with the chaplain in a squad generally means that whatever you charged is dead too!

I hope that's given you something to think about - good luck!

Thanks for help, Ljundhammer!

I disagree that Dark Angels is the weakest codex in the game, I have some sad experience with Daemonhunters

I have read the Warseer tactica and I understand that the dominant mode of playing Deathwing is using mass Crusaders, however I now only have one Land Raider and even that of Vanilla variety. Therefore I decided I'd stick with Siegewing version for now, though I'm also open to having three dreadnoughts / two venerable dreadnoughts and a character / land raider and a dreadnought / land raider and a vindicator in addition to the core of 4 terminator squads and "Belial". I also prefer the "water warrior" shooty/maneuvering version over a straight assault one, especially considering lack of transports.

I'm not especially interested in doublewing configuration as it would wreak havoc with my counts-as fluff, but I understand that it's the most versatile of the three.

What would be a good dreadnought loadout if I was taking three of them? Plasma cannons? I've just started converting AoBR dread with one.

As for characters, I might want to try a Grey Knight Brother Captain with a psychic hood and possibly psycannon for a ghetto Librarian (actually better than standard one LOL) and assault cannon combination.

It seems to me that Apothecary is just free points as using him even once per battle (which invariably happens) is already getting more than his points back. Standard I'm a lot less sure about.

vytzka wrote:Thanks for help, Ljundhammer!

I disagree that Dark Angels is the weakest codex in the game, I have some sad experience with Daemonhunters

You & me both!

vytzka wrote:I have read the Warseer tactica and I understand that the dominant mode of playing Deathwing is using mass Crusaders, however I now only have one Land Raider and even that of Vanilla variety. Therefore I decided I'd stick with Siegewing version for now, though I'm also open to having three dreadnoughts / two venerable dreadnoughts and a character / land raider and a dreadnought / land raider and a vindicator in addition to the core of 4 terminator squads and "Belial". I also prefer the "water warrior" shooty/maneuvering version over a straight assault one, especially considering lack of transports.

Without transports you are going to have trouble fighting in the 'water warrior' style. The basis of using the reactive playstyle that DeathWing excel at, is the ability to rapidly move & still be able to shoot small chunks of the opponent's army down with a great proportion of your own. Using walking terminators robs you of this versatility, meaning that the enemy is constantly pushing you onto the back foot rather than you manouvering the enemy to where you want them to go.

I may be wrong, but more terminators, to me, means less versatility.

Dreadnoughts are good, however, they are only good, exceling at neither assault nor shooting. For competative games, I'd leave them at home for the easy KPs that they are.

vytzka wrote:I'm not especially interested in doublewing configuration as it would wreak havoc with my counts-as fluff, but I understand that it's the most versatile of the three.

I find double wing less useful that DW if I'm honest (for the reasons above mostly), but also for the reason that an 8' walking tank riding a bycicle just looks silly to me.

vytzka wrote:What would be a good dreadnought loadout if I was taking three of them? Plasma cannons? I've just started converting AoBR dread with one.

Depends on what you want it to do... Plasma is good for putting deepstrikers off, but I'd rather go with the shooty version of m/l & l/c, or drop pod a multi-melta for the lulz. I don't really rate Dreads, so I'm not sure.

vytzka wrote:As for characters, I might want to try a Grey Knight Brother Captain with a psychic hood and possibly psycannon for a ghetto Librarian (actually better than standard one LOL) and assault cannon combination.

It's good.

vytzka wrote:It seems to me that Apothecary is just free points as using him even once per battle (which invariably happens) is already getting more than his points back. Standard I'm a lot less sure about.

If I could get an apothecary in at 1500 pts I would, but it's a tight fit. I honestly prefer having the chaplain, who is more expensive, but does both jobs - the re-rolls to hit are similar to the banner, and his wounds are similar to the apothecary, but you also get an I5 power weapon thrown in. He is also more versatile in that he can leave the unit to assault something else if it gets to squeaky-bum time!

At the end of the day, you just need to proxy & experiment until you hit a playstyle that suits you.

He he , my (not very fluffy) siegewing http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthrea ... ost3602166
also links to the warseer siegewing thread.. that wasn't all that great.

IMO siegewing plays like a really fluffy nurgle list.. or like how tzeentch ran in 3.5. Quite a fan of the play style really ..not at all 5th ed though

Thanks for the Siegewing link, KMB. I didn't notice that.