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CSM - Black Legion 1800 point C&C please

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CSM - Black Legion 1800 point C&C please

Postby Headhunter75 » Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:20 pm

Code: Select all
Chaos Black Legion List

HQ
Abbadon   total=275

Daemon Prince   =135
•Mark of Slaanesh
•Lash of Submission

Elites
5 Terminators   =215
Champion      
•Icon of Glory   
1 with Reaper AC      
4 combi-weapons

5 Possessed SM   =160
•Icon of Khorne   

Troops
10 Chaos SM   =210
Aspiring Champion   
•Plasma      
•Mark of Slaanesh   
1 csm with Melta   

Rhino (transport csm)   =55
•Blade      
•Armour      

10 Berzerkers   =210
Skull Champion   
•Power Weapon   
•Personal Icon   
2 with Plasma pistols   

Rhino (transport zerkers)=55
•Blade      
•Armour      

Fast Attack
6 Raptors      =195
Champion      
•Lightning Claws   
•Melta Bombs   
•Icon of Glory   
1 Flamer      
1 Plasma      

1 Spawn      =40

Heavy Support
LandRaider   =270
•Armour      
•Possessed   
•Havoc Launcher   

5 Havocs      =170
Champion      
•Combi-Weapon   
•Icon of Glory   

2 with ML                  
1 with Heavy Bolter   
1 with Flamer   

         Total   1775


So please C&C


(Spack: I've edited out the individual options and upgrades costs, as per the rules sticky - I'd forgotten to include the note about option/upgrade costs, so that's my fault, but it's corrected now)
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Postby killmaimburn » Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:52 pm

First off, take me with a pinch of salt, I'm bitter about the new codex.(I also assume you have access to more models (or have an opponent who will allow you to proxy) unless you tell me something different)
Abbadon, death becomes his foes! I haven't tried him out properly yet, I'd love you to report back how he works in games under 2000 points.
DP, fairly standard, I'd add a movement mode if we can free up the points somewhere else, since he already won't be coming on in escalation it won't hurt him.

Termies- Fairly stacked for coming in mid game somewhere and causing some hurt but.. (as was only recently brought to my attention :oops: ) the champion doesn't convey any extra leadership, why not just have one bloke with lightning claws or a powerfist instead? (much better at bolstering any CC if that was why he was needed)
I really don't like the reaper it costs nearly the same as a termie, for a unit that you intend to deep strike into someones lines (the rest of the squad have 1 super shot then really want to be in assualt (or rapid firing gribblies), why waste a distance shot from him?)I'd suggest making it 6 termies a good number for victory points and scoring (5 if you lose 3 your beneath scoring, 6 you lose 3 your at scoring- even numbers make for more resilience in points).
I hate possessed so much I'll froth- but unless you ask me to, I'm not going to froth all over your nice clean thread.

Interesting CSM Good mobile set up.
With the beserkers is it worth the skull champion and power weapon?. I reckon if your keeping them gaurding the csm then yes (the power weapon will be usefull against termies etc), if not maybe play test just 10 beserkers.(that is half another good min unit in savings the other half could be got from dropping the plas pistols, khorne don't like shooting, it sometimes means they can't make charges and if you have 2 plasma pistols 8" from 6 termies with 2 asscans something has already gone horribly wrong 8O :wink: )
Spawn -hack ptewy (see possessed comment)

Landraider- I think you have a points scrap here- why have extra armour and possession, they do the same thing. All the weapons are twinlinked so possession is ok, drop the armour. I'd be incredably tempted to stick the beserkers in here, much better chance of getting accross the table, you might even decide to keep the rhino as wel and have it for mobile fire support (2 combi bolters with an av value screaming around the table for the price of 2 and a bit csm, fun and good for blocking LOS).

I'm not threatened by your havocs, they are a unit I should feel I have to kill as quickly as possible, but I don't. Part of this appears(I'll make an assumption slap me if I'm wrong) that you fell for the GW retailling of havocs\devastators (pain in the bum for folks newer to the game), 1 of everything is never threatening , when your using 1 weapon at least one other can't be effective. So you have in game crisis about what your shooting at and I know I'm only going to be hit by one weapon from your unit.(I have an advantage and you have to be stressed and have commited points that aren't in use)I'm still fiddling with havocs under the new codex,missiles are good. OR mobile havocs with assualt weapons (the other bits I'm yet to really try much) heavy bolters would be nice, but they are the bit that really stumped me, I wasn't expecting their price bump (darned eldar loving GW- you see the bitterness)If you decide to take the assualt weapon route, it might be worth having a peek at the chosen selections.

Your 25 points under, thats almost a crime :wink: , you could use that to add a meat shield (ablative wound of a spare csm) to the havocs (convention dictates either a small disposable squad or 1 meat shield for every heavy weapon so the unit is more resilient). or upgrade a termie to have a power fist, or take some other stuff away and add an extra unit.
If you want me to talk about spawn and possessed just say, if you have points freed up, 6man csm with a melta is 100 points
a second squad of 3termies with combi weapons can be as little as 105 (or 90 naked, they still do the job), or a singel obliterator (very tasty)

Its a nicely thought out list, but constrained(in my opinion) by GWs influence on what you have bought, thats diminshed how deadly it could be. My main point is try to get another scoring unit in there somehow :D
Hope something there was almost usefull
KMB
Last edited by killmaimburn on Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:47 pm

Ive added [code] tags to your post, as per the rules for this part of the Forum: http://www.ageofstrife.com/modules.php? ... topic&t=61

Im unsure about posting individual points costs, im going to raise the issue here: http://www.ageofstrife.com/modules.php? ... opic&t=592

thanks :)

~ Tim
(AS Mod)
8O :D OMG - Im a Dad - of THREE!! :D 8O
:) I am "LMTRK" on The Wizards Community and MTG Salvation
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Postby Spack » Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:26 am

Your total seems way off, it should be 2055pts, not 1775pts. Your Zerkers unit is 275, not 210 - you forgot to add in the cost of the champion and upgrades. Even using the 210pts you listed, your total army list is still 1990pts, way over your stated 1775pts - I guess you missed something when adding the units up.
Last edited by Spack on Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ben » Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:03 pm

KMB,

The weapons on the Havocs are because he already glued weapons on some of the guys and he couldn't stick them in his CSM squads. (I did the same thing with scouts with HB and Sniper rifles when I play BT :( Must read Codex first.)

He has the units listed above, some like Possessed because they look cool and he likes to paint, and is wanting to use them on the tabletop.
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Postby killmaimburn » Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:18 am

Ahh, the glue frenzy, mine was a modelling disaster rather than a efficiency hiccup, I got too many multi pose imperial marines handed down all at once and stuck them all in similar and boring positions rather than taking my time. (sniff) So now having applied most paint to most minis I'm now sawing a few up at a time and redoing them and pinning bits and bobs, tis a pain.
Do you [ben] also use an allocation of "fun" units, e.g. footsloggin multimelta dreads, a 7man command squad with counter attack all honours and no vehicle,7 man sword brethren with honours, shields, krak, seals, counter attack and no transport? If so then it would be a fine environment for those units.(Its hard to guage the kind of games people have, I don’t want ben to have to hold back too much,or have new folks think the game doesn’t rock because they use sub par units, so I'm just going to go off on one, in case you get thrown in the deep end :D ) If I were using those models to make a list,(I would probably play in 1500s for a while) my core would look like this:

HQ
Demon prince (as was) (MOS LOS)=135
(Would be nice to fly, but adding wings to a model is a pain, and saying "he just floats" is what gave chaos a bad name in the first place :oops: )
Elites
1x6 Termies with IOCG , combi weaponsx6 Abaddon is now your termie champion- he just looks really pretty, use his weapons to represent some sort of fist and combi weapon. =240
I might be tempted in really low points brackets to split it into 2 squads of 3.In a really high points bracket (2000 ish) I'd bring out abaddon, but thats just me.

Troops
Berserkers 10 man led by champion with power weapon (plas pistols - just ignore em, they're bolt pistols in everyones mind)+ a personal icon (245)
They go in the landraider, the icon inside such a big vehicle is really handy by the rules of summoning (p61 ish, having 6" from a huge vehicle hull is a big chunk of the table, handy for demons etc) they don't shoot well, because you want to be in assault and you don't want to shoot folks that stop you being able to charge thenm through clever wound removal.
FA
6 Raptors (as was) champion (claws+ melta bombs)1 flamer 1 plasma IOGC=195

Heavy
Land raider possessed, havoc launcher (255)
(cut back a bit, I'd add a dozerblade if the modelling idea worked for you)
That comes to 1070

Your second troops choice, I've got a bit confused over, does the champion have a plasma weapon? If so I'd follow (A) if its a squad member I'd follow (B)
A) An 8 man Csm with IOS the champion has a plasma pistol (or perhaps more versatile a combi weapon depending on how you play) and one squad member has a melta gun + Rhino with blade and armour, squad cost= 235
I try to put icons not on champions as most of my opponents arrange sniping on anything that looks too costly.

Havoc squad takes the 2 spare bodies from the IOS CSM squad
5 man (that combi bolter champion is just a gruntling whose picked up a rather fancy bolter from somewhere) 2 missiles =115
(steady fire base, which can absorb 3 casualties and still operate at 100% efficiency, take down 2 meq a turn or really threaten armour around the place)
1420
You could then play 1500 point battles really brutally, by either buying\making 1 obliterator (did the customising oblit thread move on?), or using your possessed as 5 demons and buying the csm rhino a havoc launcher.

B)10man csm, with champion glue a scabbard (paint it a bit first) onto the champions leg to represent a power weapon sheathed, leading blokes with a plas and a melta, + Rhino EA and blade =280
Which puts you at 1350, you could then use 2 possessed to represent obliterators to make it up to 1500, or take your possessed as you wished (although I might play test the idea of it being the icon of slannesh to be dead on 1500, and to attack first,
Expansions of this sort of army?
I think if you decide to not take power weapons all over the place and instead add a greater demon, that might be a fun switch around and as the chaos fan bois keep telling me modellers love it because you could use a giant tree to represent your demon (basically any big model that you really want to paint) He’d be really nice tactically popping out of the IOS plas pistol champion or the khorne bloke.
Last edited by killmaimburn on Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ben » Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:03 pm

I only play army of DOOM in tourneys. I actually play in campaigns mostly. We use Mighty Empire Tiles and try to come up with good stories as to what is happening.
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Postby Headhunter75 » Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:04 pm

Thanks Kill for all the input. Spack, I wouldn't put it past me to come up with the wrg number. There's just so much detail that goes into this. But it will be a good 2 months before I see a table top with the FULL army because I have my Termies, possessed, spawn, & berzerkers to paint. GEEZ. I might work on my Zerkers first and get them done so I can play a 500-700 point game with Ben, but there will not be a 2000 point game in a while. I also have a buddy with a plauge marine army, and I would love to slap him and his nurglings around a little.

Unleash the Zerkers.....
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