Hey everyone,

As I'm just getting back into the game after a long break, still trying to get my head around the new rules mind, and after a few games and UKGT Heat 1 under my belt things are coming along nicely.

As i'm pretty much starting from scratch I'm pretty flexiable with models etc but I want to stick to a 'theme' and I want to keep the list friendly but no walkover, as thats neither fun or good for either me or my opponent.

Here is my 1500pt list for friendly games and competitive ones:

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Farseer w/ guide, fortune, witnessing, stones - 135
*Will sit with the Dark Reapers casting fortune + guide for added dead marines, if I can combine a doom as well I bet I could kill a 10man squad easy*

Farseer w/guide, fortune, doom, witnessing, warding, stones - 150
*Will sit with the Bright lance guardians casting guide and will fortune them or the avengers and/or/either doom incoming enemy*

7 Harlequins w/ 6 kisses, shadowseer, death jester - 190
*Will be my counter punchers for combat/out flankers*

10 Avengers w/ exarch, dual avenger catapults, bladestorm - 152
*Will be my anti-horde, nob bikers etc*

10 Guardians w/ scatter laser - 95

10 Guardians w/ scatter laser - 95
*Will protect either flank, tarpit the enemy and keep the shots coming with scatter lasers/shuriken cannons? maybe to save 10pts each?*

10 Guardians w/ bright lance, warlock, embolden - 140
*With the farseer in here, they have a chance of hitting with the B/Lance and have been quite good for me I have been looking into increasing the numbers to 14-15 for added wounds as these are a big target, embolden helps the Farseer with Psy checks and the squad for moral*

Wraithlord w/ 2x flamers, bright lance, missile launcher - 155

Wraithlord w/ 2x flamers, bright lance, missile launcher - 155
*These two beasts are my main anti-tank threat and can deal with hordes up close, will keep these together to as to combine arms and to support each other, will avoide combat if possible until the Mech threat is gone*

5 Dark Reapers w/ exarch, tempest launcher, fast shot, crack shot - 232
*With a farseer, guiding and fortuning these, they will be the bain of all enemies - cannot wait to get these on the field of play- will suffer in DoW missions mind*

Infantry - 57
KPs - 10
Total Points - 1499


So their you have it, my 1500 point list.

Changes I've been looking at are:

1. Dropping the Scatter lasers down to Shuriken cannons on the two guardian squads
2. Dropping a basic Harlequin for more pts

Doing both would save me 42pts.

Which I could spend of 5 Guardians for the Bright Lance squad
And a Spear for either of the Farseers or the Warlock.

Anyways I need your C&C

Cheers!

-Rob

EDIT-

General game plan:

I plan to set up very defensively as I have quite a sizeable shooting threat, as everything can move and shoot (excluding the reapers) I'm quite flexiable in that respect. I'm quite light on anti-tank though with only 5 ranged weapons, the wraithlords and rending/witchblades for close quaters. But at the GT I faced 5 tanks all tournament 1 Whirlwind + Rhino and the others where in a 3 basilisk list.

The idea behind the Farseers is to provide loads of support, with the fortune and guide/doom everyturn the list will be quite flexiable as they can hope from one unit to the next with the obvious benefits each power brings.


So with deploying deep in my DZ and keeping my Anti-tank flowing each turn (The main reason I've not taken ANY tanks- shaken to easy).

The only problem I can see is the capture and control mission, I will have to make to kamakarzi missions onto their objective so I can contest/capture. I've toyed with a unit of Jetbikes instead of a Jetbike squad but they are far to vulnerable and give away a KP even easier that Guardians do.




EDIT MKII:

Right with a few reviews and I’ve been thinking about the lists and what its been lacking, here is the next incarnation of my list:

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HQ:
Farseer – stones, warding, doom, guide, fortune, spear – 168
Farseer – stones, witnessing, guide, fortune, spear – 138

Elites:
5 Harlequins - 5x kisses, Shadowseer – 140

Troops:
15 Guardians – missile launcher, warlock embolden, spear – 173
10 Avengers – exarch, dual catapults, bladestorm - 152
5 Pathfinders – 120
3 Jetbikes – shuriken cannon - 76

Fast attack:
5 Hawks – exarch, skyleap – 132

Heavy Support:
5 Dark reapers – 232
Wriahtlord – missile launcher, bright lance 155

Total – 1486
Total Infantry – 51
Total KPs – 10
Total scoring units – 4 


Right so I’ve lost some long ranged anti-tank and a MC (Wraithlord) + a few warm bodies, but I’ve gained some more anti-MC and two harder to kill scoring units (Pathfinders and Guardians), 2 mobile units (Hawks and Jetbikes) and some close range anti-tank (3x spears)

I also had to re-work the Farseer as I’d really under priced him/her! (oops!)

So with 14pts to spend what do I get?? I could downgrade the Pathfinders to rangers and increase their number by 2, but I’m reluctant to do this as I would lose the 2+ cover save and the possibility of rending quite easily.

Ta!

-Rob


LIST MKIII

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Farseer – guide, doom, fortune, stones, warding, spear  – 168 
Farseer – guide, fortune, stones, witnessing, spear – 138

6 Harlequins – shadowseer, 5x kisses – 162

15 Guardians – star cannon, warlock, embolden, spear –178 
10 Guardians – missile launcher – 100
10 Avengers – exarch, dual catapults, bladestorm – 152 
3 Jetbikes – shuriken cannon – 76

5 Hawks – exarch, skyleap, intercept – 137

5 Dark reapers – exarch, tempest launcher, crack shot, fast shot – 232
Wraithlord – 2x flamers, bright lance, missile launcher – 155

Total points – 1499
Total Infantry – 57
Total KPs – 10
Total scoring units – 4 


Which one out of all three do you feel is best suited the face any number of opponents?

Ta

-Rob

Welcome to the site, nicely thought out list (

RME wrote:I've toyed with a unit of Jetbikes [..]but they are far to vulnerable and give away a KP even easier that Guardians do.

Eldar aren't my speciality (I really have no clue about the powers) but for jetbikes..3 jetbikes shurican cannon=dead cheap. And with a bit of tweaking to 5th ed can have their chances of surviving improved a lot.. you can now say "these guys start in reserve" no matter what your doing.. so you start them in reserve and just hope they only turn up turn 4 or so.. and start turbo boosting around the place near objectives and bases.
Might that work for you? (its that or vehicles last turning it )

killmaimburn wrote:Welcome to the site, nicely thought out list (

RME wrote:I've toyed with a unit of Jetbikes [..]but they are far to vulnerable and give away a KP even easier that Guardians do.

Eldar aren't my speciality (I really have no clue about the powers) but for jetbikes..3 jetbikes shurican cannon=dead cheap. And with a bit of tweaking to 5th ed can have their chances of surviving improved a lot.. you can now say "these guys start in reserve" no matter what your doing.. so you start them in reserve and just hope they only turn up turn 4 or so.. and start turbo boosting around the place near objectives and bases.
Might that work for you? (its that or vehicles last turning it )

If I was going to play Jetbikes that's how I would play them. I've been tempted to use - 3(4) Jetbikes w/ 1 Shuriken cannon, Warlock w/ Destructer + Spear = 134pts not so cheep but quite hardy and pack a punch to both tanks and non-meq troops.

If I were to drop what I said I would and replace one guardian squad with these jetbikes that would work out around the same points.

What'd ya think?

Cheers!

-Rob

EDIT after playing around with the numbers I'd have to drop the Death Jester as well from the Harlequins.

Is it still a fisable option?

I never quite saw the point of death jesters.. most times I see harlies they want to be fleeting.. but then to be honest I rareley see harlies take a shadowseer either these days (I think folks got a bit too used to drive by rapid firing and took more bodies)
When I see jetbikes they are only ever minned.. if i shoot at them its because i have to kill your troop choices, that means I'm not shooting at unit X and Y that have bigger better guns and are about to blat me next turn.. i see them being used on a very low profile to good effect mostly.(but thats just round me )

killmaimburn wrote:I never quite saw the point of death jesters.. most times I see harlies they want to be fleeting.. but then to be honest I rareley see harlies take a shadowseer either these days (I think folks got a bit too used to drive by rapid firing and took more bodies)

I've used the Death Jester because I'm using a gun line army and every little helps. And imho the Shadowseer is manditory with Plasma grenades and its ability to keep being shot to a minimum.

When I see jetbikes they are only ever minned.. if i shoot at them its because i have to kill your troop choices, that means I'm not shooting at unit X and Y that have bigger better guns and are about to blat me next turn.. i see them being used on a very low profile to good effect mostly.(but thats just round me :) )

Min Jetbikes are quite cheep I agree but I cannot see their uses tbh, with little damage output and if you lose one the unit will probably break... I see Guardians as a more effective unit for only 9 more pts I get an extra 7 warm bodies.

But still maybe worth ago.

Ta for the comments!

-Rob

let me start by saying that i really like this list, on the whole.

that said, there are some things i would personally change:

- there are too many Guardians, IMO. after using lots of them myself out of necessity, i wouldnt want so many if i was starting from scratch. maybe bump up the Farseer's squad a bit (say, 15+Warlock+Farseer - making them a solid rock that sits on Objectives), and drop the other 2 units to free up more points.
- you could do with some fast Objective grabbers - Jetbikes are ideal (if you dont want Transport Vehicles) as they are very fast, quite tough, relatively cheap, and Scoring, but Swooping Hawks come close behind them, as they are nigh-on untargettable (Sky Leap), almost as fast, and can land whereever they want - just a shame they can only Contest Objectives.
- have you considered Rangers/Pathfinders, more Dire Avengers (one of the best Troop choices in the game, IMO - even a small squad can do a lot of damage), or Outflanking Warwalkers?
- drop the Runes of Witnessing on the Farseer that is going with the Embolden Warlock Guardians - re-rolling Ld10 is enough - no need to pay above that or increase the risk of Perils.
- drop the Deathjester to save points and remove the downside of them Running/hiding
- upgrade some/all of the Witchblades to Singing Spears (i very rarely regret it, and by then it would hardly make a difference anyway as i am in combat with something nasty, which isnt where i want to be in the first place)

thats about it, really. i would love to own those Wraithlords myself, and im looking forward to trying Harlies too. that Reaper unit will do wonders (easily cripple a 10-man Marine squad a turn, if given the chance).

on Jetbikes, the Shuriken Cannon can pack a suprising punch (get into side/rear armour of most Vehicles and you have a reasonable chance of doing damage, and S6 means it can even rack up kills against Marines etc). the ability to move 6" after firing makes up for the short range of the Catapults (move into range, then back away out of enemy charge range), and Twin-linked makes them consistent. their high Toughness and good Save can make them hard to shift, allowing them to tie up non-CC units in combat. Turbo-boost means they can rapidly redeploy, or snatch Objectives. and by taking a small unit, they will be relatively easy to hide, will get ignored a lot, or, if shot at, will take a disproportionate amount of fire away from the rest of your army (due to them overkill factor).
send them round a flank, aiming for an objective, small isolated shooty squad, or a Transport's side/rear armour and you shouldnt be dissapointed. worst comes to worst, they get shot/charged, and your opponent uses a whole unit to kill 3 models.

hope that helps!

~ Tim

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:let me start by saying that i really like this list, on the whole. :)

Ta very much! :)

that said, there are some things i would personally change:

Awesome lets get to it!

- there are too many Guardians, IMO. after using lots of them myself out of necessity, i wouldnt want so many if i was starting from scratch. maybe bump up the Farseer's squad a bit (say, 15+Warlock+Farseer - making them a solid rock that sits on Objectives), and drop the other 2 units to free up more points.

Thats what I was thinking of doing anyways tbh, I'd been thinking (a dangerous thing!) and I think one or two units for the army to anchor its self to would be better than 2/3 smaller units.

- you could do with some fast Objective grabbers - Jetbikes are ideal (if you dont want Transport Vehicles) as they are very fast, quite tough, relatively cheap, and Scoring, but Swooping Hawks come close behind them, as they are nigh-on untargettable (Sky Leap), almost as fast, and can land whereever they want - just a shame they can only Contest Objectives.

Yeah I'm quite light on objective grabbers especially when they are quite spread out, so Jetbikes and Hawks will be more than likely added! and I think I will be giving your tactics for the 'rubber hawks' ago for sure.

- have you considered Rangers/Pathfinders, more Dire Avengers (one of the best Troop choices in the game, IMO - even a small squad can do a lot of damage), or Outflanking Warwalkers?

I took Pathfinders to the UKGT and they faired either really well or really 'rubbish!' but that was down to me, good placement/bad placement and also outflankers I found I was play the 4th ed rules in the 5th edition enviroment.. gah, and I was setting myself up for failures all the bleeding time. I think one unit of 5-8 would be enough though as they are expensive, vulnerable to certain units, but still once in cover they can be very fustraiting!

- drop the Runes of Witnessing on the Farseer that is going with the Embolden Warlock Guardians - re-rolling Ld10 is enough - no need to pay above that or increase the risk of Perils.
- drop the Deathjester to save points and remove the downside of them Running/hiding

Done and double done!

- upgrade some/all of the Witchblades to Singing Spears (i very rarely regret it, and by then it would hardly make a difference anyway as i am in combat with something nasty, which isnt where i want to be in the first place)

Thats sounds about right really, plus they make good deterants for vehicles flying/rolling upto a unit knowing they cannot be hurt, its a big differance if they can and by a 12" lascannon! :wink:

thats about it, really. i would love to own those Wraithlords myself, and im looking forward to trying Harlies too. that Reaper unit will do wonders (easily cripple a 10-man Marine squad a turn, if given the chance).

Yeah I've used the Wraithlords before and they where awesome all GT and did better than my Fire prism which lead me to think about buying a third- but in the interests of cheez-mongering I thought again.

on Jetbikes, the Shuriken Cannon can pack a suprising punch (get into side/rear armour of most Vehicles and you have a reasonable chance of doing damage, and S6 means it can even rack up kills against Marines etc). the ability to move 6" after firing makes up for the short range of the Catapults (move into range, then back away out of enemy charge range), and Twin-linked makes them consistent. their high Toughness and good Save can make them hard to shift, allowing them to tie up non-CC units in combat. Turbo-boost means they can rapidly redeploy, or snatch Objectives. and by taking a small unit, they will be relatively easy to hide, will get ignored a lot, or, if shot at, will take a disproportionate amount of fire away from the rest of your army (due to them overkill factor).
send them round a flank, aiming for an objective, small isolated shooty squad, or a Transport's side/rear armour and you shouldnt be dissapointed. worst comes to worst, they get shot/charged, and your opponent uses a whole unit to kill 3 models. :P

Gah I really liked the small units, I took one to the GT but again I was playing them like 4th Ed and to aggressivly, in games with KPs I will keep them in reserve and pray for ones on the reserve rolls! same for the other missions thinking about it! lol and very true if they do shoot em, I'm not loosing to much.

Ta for the advice I will play with some numbers and edit the first topic with an updated list!

Once again thanks for the advice Tim.

Ta

-Rob

RME wrote:I took Pathfinders to the UKGT and they faired either really well or really 'rubbish!' but that was down to me, good placement/bad placement and also outflankers I found I was play the 4th ed rules in the 5th edition enviroment.. gah, and I was setting myself up for failures all the bleeding time. I think one unit of 5-8 would be enough though as they are expensive, vulnerable to certain units, but still once in cover they can be very fustraiting!

i would just go for a min-sized squad myself. we would have some ourselves but Kate doesnt like the models - some day i will convert some "Guardian Snipers" for her.

the next thing she is going to add is some Banshees (we have already bought them but she hasnt gotten round to making them yet - i converted her an Exarch here)

RME wrote:Yeah I've used the Wraithlords before and they where awesome all GT and did better than my Fire prism which lead me to think about buying a third- but in the interests of cheez-mongering I thought again.

heh. that said, they are expensive points-wise, and suffer from Wraithsight, so im not sure how much it would be frowned upon (especially considering it means no room for "unkillable" Falcons ).

Reapers are awesome though....

RME wrote:Gah I really liked the small units, I took one to the GT but again I was playing them like 4th Ed and to aggressivly, in games with KPs I will keep them in reserve and pray for ones on the reserve rolls! same for the other missions thinking about it! lol and very true if they do shoot em, I'm not loosing to much.

ive started putting them in Reserve too. this allows them to appear anywhere on your board edge to counter threats/Score Objectives, and keeps them alive longer. i really like the fact that in 5th ed anything can be put in Reserve.

RME wrote:Ta for the advice I will play with some numbers and edit the first topic with an updated list!

Once again thanks for the advice Tim.

no probs - just glad to help

something else i want to try is an Autarch - have you used/considered using one?

cheers,

~ Tim

Too much multi quoting makes kittens cry.
All I would say is there is space for over aggressive tactics in 5th ed.. the best eldar player I know still just gos for the kill, it doesn't matter what the killpoints are if he's removed every single model from your army, and I have taken up early in the game queen sacrifices (since VPs are not such an issue now)-the shock value alone is enough to win in pick up games.(and it still works with regular use against regular opponents...albeit mildly less so)
Small units is a trade killpoints for firebases and removing wasted shots/overkill. I still prefer more firebases less wasted shots and aiming for points/kills back. Some armies can do KP really well (e.g. deathwing) some races just have to climb the hill one way or another

RME wrote:So with 14pts to spend what do I get??

do any of the Harlies in the 2nd draft of the list have Rending?

~ Tim

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:

RME wrote:I took Pathfinders to the UKGT and they faired either really well or really 'rubbish!' but that was down to me, good placement/bad placement and also outflankers I found I was play the 4th ed rules in the 5th edition enviroment.. gah, and I was setting myself up for failures all the bleeding time. I think one unit of 5-8 would be enough though as they are expensive, vulnerable to certain units, but still once in cover they can be very fustraiting!

i would just go for a min-sized squad myself. we would have some ourselves but Kate doesnt like the models - some day i will convert some "Guardian Snipers" for her.

Ow thats a shame really, Pathfinders are very good with rending AND ap 1 shots . For simple 'Guardians Snipers here's soom I've seen around: HERE - Hope this gives some insperation.

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:the next thing she is going to add is some Banshees (we have already bought them but she hasnt gotten round to making them yet - i converted her an Exarch here)

Awesome- Banshees make very good counter assault units and are even better combined with DOOOOooom!

+ the Exarch is awesome mate, Mirror Swords is that? The best addition for a small unit, Executioner is better for larger units mind.

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:

RME wrote:Yeah I've used the Wraithlords before and they where awesome all GT and did better than my Fire prism which lead me to think about buying a third- but in the interests of cheez-mongering I thought again.

heh. that said, they are expensive points-wise, and suffer from Wraithsight, so im not sure how much it would be frowned upon (especially considering it means no room for "unkillable" Falcons ).

Reapers are awesome though....

Yeah I've had to drop one to fit in some mobility as you said they are very expensive. Also I prefer the wave serpent now to the falcon as its not unkillable anymore and you cannot hide it either, but that said a unit with Dire avengers + a farseer with fortune = unkillable scoring unit (keep moving/cover for the 4+ re-rollable saves and you have yourself a good'n.

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:

RME wrote:Gah I really liked the small units, I took one to the GT but again I was playing them like 4th Ed and to aggressivly, in games with KPs I will keep them in reserve and pray for ones on the reserve rolls! same for the other missions thinking about it! lol and very true if they do shoot em, I'm not loosing to much.

ive started putting them in Reserve too. this allows them to appear anywhere on your board edge to counter threats/Score Objectives, and keeps them alive longer. i really like the fact that in 5th ed anything can be put in Reserve.

Yeah it just means they face alot less fire power early doors and they are quite good at turbo boosting (cover save) and then moving onto the objective from pretty much anywhere.

And losing first turn can be an advantage now when you can just deploy nothing and they basically lose a turn or two of being able to effectivly fire.

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:

RME wrote:]Ta for the advice I will play with some numbers and edit the first topic with an updated list!

Once again thanks for the advice Tim.

no probs - just glad to help

something else i want to try is an Autarch - have you used/considered using one?

cheers,

~ Tim

I have used an Autarch but not since the 4th Ed. The best combo's are probably either:

Jetbike, lance, mandiblasters and fusion gun/reaper launcher

or

Wings, fusion gun, power weapon, mandisblasters (DS behind/near a tank and pop it, but then expect to die or use the wreckage as cover)

Both of which are good and have their advantages and they can be tailored to any army list, for yours I would probably go with the Hawks wings one and tag team with them (+1 reserve roll is very handy if you need/want it!)

But an autarch with Jetbike bodyguards could also be handy but its quite expensive.

Thanks for the comments as always!

-Rob

EDIT -

Yes the Harlequins do have rending goodness!

RME wrote:Ow thats a shame really, Pathfinders are very good with rending AND ap 1 shots .

i know - thats what i keep telling her.

RME wrote:For simple 'Guardians Snipers here's soom I've seen around: HERE - Hope this gives some insperation.

oh wow those are great! the thing holding me back was that i couldnt find the right looking rifles - but i guess i could just lengthen the barrels on the Shuriken Catapults with plastic pipe - thanks!

RME wrote:+ the Exarch is awesome mate, Mirror Swords is that? The best addition for a small unit, Executioner is better for larger units mind.

cheers - and yes, it represents Mirror Swords. we only bought one boxed set (we mostly play 400pts CP) so its going to be a small squad.

RME wrote:a unit with Dire avengers + a farseer with fortune = unkillable scoring unit (keep moving/cover for the 4+ re-rollable saves and you have yourself a good'n.

one of my friends puts DAs in a Transport, and even without the Farseer it is very hard to stop them Scoring an Objective.

RME wrote:I have used an Autarch but not since the 4th Ed. The best combo's are probably either:

Jetbike, lance, mandiblasters and fusion gun/reaper launcher

or

Wings, fusion gun, power weapon, mandisblasters

yes, i would agree (at least on paper - ive not tried one at all yet).

RME wrote:Both of which are good and have their advantages and they can be tailored to any army list, for yours I would probably go with the Hawks wings one and tag team with them (+1 reserve roll is very handy if you need/want it!)

since i already converted a Swooping Hawk Exarch with Web of Skulls (finished it just weeks before the codex took the option away ), so i could use that as an Autarch.

RME wrote:Yes the Harlequins do have rending goodness!

great (make sure you put it on the list )

cheers

~ Tim
p.s. do you mean to disable smilies in your posts?

Sorry KMB

RME wrote:For simple 'Guardians Snipers here's soom I've seen around: HERE - Hope this gives some insperation.

oh wow those are great! the thing holding me back was that i couldnt find the right looking rifles - but i guess i could just lengthen the barrels on the Shuriken Catapults with plastic pipe - thanks!

Yeah they look quite simple to covert and look quite effective, might be frouned upon for TLOS purposes though (lying down!)

cheers - and yes, it represents Mirror Swords. we only bought one boxed set (we mostly play 400pts CP) so its going to be a small squad.

Ah cool, probably the best option for them- cannot wait to see em painted and play tested!

since i already converted a Swooping Hawk Exarch with Web of Skulls (finished it just weeks before the codex took the option away ), so i could use that as an Autarch.

The WoS could definately be a power weapon and its quite simple to make somthing look fuison gun esq.

~ Tim
p.s. do you mean to disable smilies in your posts?

Nope haha- changed the setting now though!

Ta for the comments!

-Rob
P.S. made a 3rd list basically swapping out the Pathfinders Guardians with a missile launcher and swapped the large guardian squads missile launcher to a star cannon. Not sure which list to take, one with more warm bodies or the one with better shot output!

RME wrote:Yeah they look quite simple to covert and look quite effective, might be frouned upon for TLOS purposes though (lying down!)

no shorter than the kneeling Ranger that GW sell
(i would probably do them standing up though, using normal Guardian bodies).

RME wrote:Ah cool, probably the best option for them- cannot wait to see em painted and play tested!

heh i wouldnt hold your breath (it takes us ages to get anything done, between TV, Magic, our son Seth etc etc /insert excuses here ).

RME wrote:made a 3rd list

i shall take a look in a bit (Seth is being a bit of a handful at present )

cheers

~ Tim

RME wrote:Ah cool, probably the best option for them- cannot wait to see em painted and play tested!

heh i wouldnt hold your breath (it takes us ages to get anything done, between TV, Magic, our son Seth etc etc /insert excuses here ).

Haha fair enough, I see how you have your priorites in order , TV, Magic then Seth!!

RME wrote:made a 3rd list

i shall take a look in a bit (Seth is being a bit of a handful at present )

cheers

~ Tim

No rush mate!

-Rob