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[C:Nids] Genestealer Uprising (Combat Patrol)

PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:48 pm
by LordMalekTheRedKnight
Hey all :)

my Genestealer Cult (Combat Patrol) homebrew list is on hold for the moment, while i mull over some ideas. while i wait for inspiration to take me, ive decided to work on the next phase of the Genestealer invasion: the Uprising!

for this Combat Patrol i want to stick to the official Codex (with a dose of "counts as") to represent the Patriarch and Purstrains revealing themselves on the unsuspecting local authorities (so no Magus, Hybrids or Broodbrothers). Under 3rd ed i fielded a similar list (nothing but Genestealers, including a Mutant with +1 S & T to represent the Patriarch), but that was a long time ago (and a different Codex), so im hoping you can help me choose my list this time round.

some rules:
- normal Combat Patrol restrictions, 400 pts limit
- the Patriarch will be represented by a Lictor rules-wise
- the rest of the force will consist of Genestealer Brood(s) only
- the only Biomorphs im considering are: Scything Talons & Scuttlers (and maybe Extended Carapace, if you can convince me that its worth it)
- if more than one brood is taken, they dont have to have the same biomorphs across the board, although they also dont have to have different biomorphs either

the list is to be used in a fun/fluffy environment against other balanced lists. games will typically be played on a 4' x 4' board with lots of varied Terrain (~40%), using standard CP rules/mission. the idea is that the list will be fluffy and fun to use, even if it wouldnt win many games in a competition. at the same time however, there would be no fun for me or my opponent if the list was a complete walkover every time...

with the Patriarch [Lictor] bought, that leaves 320 pts to spend on the Genestealers. Scuttlers makes a lot of sense fluff-wise, as it can represent the 'stealers infesting an area and revealing themselves to ambush unsuspecting enemies (it also ties in with the Cult list im working on, where i use Scouts for most units, to represent the fact that they are fighting on Home Turf). in the Cult list i will be using 1 Brood of Purestrains (stats, rules and costs lifted from the 'Nid Codex) with Scything Talons, so this Biomorph will make sense here too (besides, 'Stealers with just 2A just doesnt feel right to me). problem with combining both of these upgrades on the same models is that it makes them quite expensive. it also means that the points available dont divide evenly (leaving some wasted, which is something i would like to minimise).

this is where you guys come in, really. you need to help me split the available points between the 'Stealers. so far the best i could come up with is:

6 Genestealers: Rending Claws, Scything Talons, Scuttlers. [138 pts]
plus:
9 Genestealers: Rending Claws, Scything Talons. [180 pts]
(only 2 pts wasted)

this way there is some variation on the tabletop, although the 'Stealers are the same physically (doesnt it make sense that they should be, considering they came from the same Patriarch with the same host race?). the smaller unit will reach the enemy first to tie them up while the bigger brood uses their numbers to keep them going as they advance to catch up (all while they wait for the Patriarch to reveal himself to close the trap). one brood being closer than the other can be explained as them being hidden spread out in separate locations (hiding in different basements, for example), before being drawn to the Patriarch when it is time to go to war.

can anyone come up with a better split (in line with the "rules" for the list), or should i go with that? :?:

cheers :)

~ Tim

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:49 am
by killmaimburn
I have a nid horde in the attic I've basically ignored for a year. Tips I've picked up watching nid hordes run against stuff that can shoot (not optimial they just have guns) scuttlers is a turn less shot at, (and its a pressure point in large armies to draw fire), for fluff you don't want your nids to survive much shots to the face (although it is good I woundn't use it in this points bracket).Its hardly OMG you roxxer to face 6man 4 heavy bolter squad in combat patrol, your unit will be dead if caught in the open no matter how much you spend on it. I don't think you need more attacks..stealers have been replaced in most ways by harlies (as Murph got quite upset about at the codexs release, just as some folks are now peeved by nurgle compared to necrons) but they still do more damage in CC that most stuff.
My split would be 2 squads of 8 with both units with scuttlers,that comes to 304,leaving you 16 points free, which is dumb because if anything cost 2 points you could make one squad all colorful and camp, but with the list being what it is I suggest you meet your fluff criteria and give al 16 of them flesh hooks so they can climb all those walls and so they attack at same intitive into cover (well they attacked into a locked room by surprise...ambusgh etc its fluff).
SO
Lictor 80
8 stealers scutllers flesh hooks=160
8 stealers scutllers flesh hooks=160
=400 no waste (no calculater required as I'd been thinking of something similar myself)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:46 pm
by LordMalekTheRedKnight
killmaimburn wrote:I don't think you need more attacks..stealers have been replaced in most ways by harlies ... but they still do more damage in CC that most stuff.

to my old skool brain, mighty Genestealers with a puny 2A doesnt really feel right. i'd also have to explain how these 'Stealers are different to the ones in my other list.

on the plus side, however, i do have enough 'Stealers (IIRC) to use different models for each list, i.e. 6 BFM 'Stealers for the Cult list and Space Hulk ones for this list.

is there a fluff explaination as to why these 'Stealers would be different to the others? different generations maybe? (like how the Patriarch is the oldest so is the best, these could be the youngest, with the other list's ones in between) :?:

killmaimburn wrote:My split would be 2 squads of 8 with both units with scuttlers,that comes to 304,leaving you 16 points free, ... I suggest you meet your fluff criteria and give al 16 of them flesh hooks so they can climb all those walls and so they attack at same intitive into cover (well they attacked into a locked room by surprise...ambusgh etc its fluff).

i hadnt though of Flesh Hooks like that before, but you are right, it does make perfect fluff-sense. it even ties in with the fact that the Pariarch has the same ability that i was going to have to explain away (Lictors come with them as standard). :D

Scuttlers is also good, for the reasons i stated in my OP. :)

killmaimburn wrote:Lictor 80
8 stealers scutllers flesh hooks=160
8 stealers scutllers flesh hooks=160
=400

my only worry is that the list would be a little 1-dimensional. for a large part of the game i would be moving/Fleeting/charging with 2 identical units of identical models. both would be moving from cover to cover to try and reach the enemy as quickly and safely as possible. and thats it. :|

im not sure how interesting that would be to use/face (i even managed to get some variation in the MEQ lists: AdMech Marines have one shooty squad and one CC squad; Tzeentch have one unit of 1KSons and one of summoned Daemons, etc). the only twist here would come from the Patriarch (who addmitedly would add a random element).

although identical broods of identical 'Stealers, from the same generation with the same Patriarch and same host species could be even fluffier than variation (a bit like how boring Necrons can be fluffy). aside from attacking from different directions/starting from different terrain pieces, is there any way i can shake things up a bit on the tabletop? :?:
(although the natural variation of Difficult Terrain and Fleet rolls should help a little...)

the list you have suggested is defiantely growing on me, though - cheers mate :)

~ Tim

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:09 pm
by killmaimburn
LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:my only worry is that the list would be a little 1-dimensional. for a large part of the game i would be moving/Fleeting/charging

If you want a second dimension take off a unit of genestealers and add something that can shoot, having reroll to wounds or a 4+ save won't change that you've got 2 units of stealers.
As for game play Nope, if you spend most of your time moving and fleeting your playing too defensively for fluff. See that heavy bolter... go fetch! ;)

Silly question can the lictor use secret deployment (DSing) in combat patrol?? (can you always use it no matter what?)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:27 pm
by LordMalekTheRedKnight
killmaimburn wrote:If you want a second dimension take off a unit of genestealers and add something that can shoot, having reroll to wounds or a 4+ save won't change that you've got 2 units of stealers.

well originally i was happy enough with the idea of them attacking in 2 'waves' (i.e. one unit with Scout and one without). thats all im really talking about.

if i dropped Scuttlers on the 2nd unit (in your proposed list), i could bump them up to 10 models... this would give 2 different sized units that arrive at different times...

killmaimburn wrote:As for game play Nope, if you spend most of your time moving and fleeting your playing too defensively for fluff. See that heavy bolter... go fetch!

well the moving and Fleeting would be towards the enemy (:P). even with Scout they arent going to get into CC until Turn 2 at the earliest (or later, if the enemy deploy further back/retreat/kill the closest Stealers or they get slowed by Terrain). but i see your point. :)

killmaimburn wrote:Silly question can the lictor use secret deployment (DSing) in combat patrol?? (can you always use it no matter what?)

yes, its compulsory and happens even when the mission wouldnt normally use DS (CP doesnt).

cheers

EDIT: could some fluff experts advise Re: physical variations despite having the same Patriarch and same host species? and about different combat capabilities of different generations? :?:

~ Tim
p.s. the good thing about this list is that i already have all the models (and while i still have to clean, glue, base and paint them, they are still playable as they snap together), so i can actually playtest the list before finalising it (usually i write the list first and then buy to match, which means i have to be pretty certain about what im taking before i even see it). we are too busy at the moment (and i need to work on my Tau), but at least the option is there. :)