Hey all

i am finally getting round to working on my Magdran Ash Spiders, using the spiders from the BFSP boxed set (i have 30 of them, thanks to Hoard O Bits, plus static grass courtesy of Matt ), but i still havent worked out what rules to use for them on the tabletop - this is where you come in!

- i have 30 spiders - i can use less, but not more, and i cant use any other models
- the force must be a legal 400 pts CP list, built using a current Codex
- the force doesnt have to be particularly competitive, but must at least be viable (no Hormagants without Synapse, etc)
- the spiders look fast, so Beasts/Cavalry would be good, or at least Fleet if possible. high Init would also be good
- the force should be almost if not entirely CC oriented, but could have some small arms fire represented by the spiders shooting webs at enemies
- Infiltrate or Deepstike would be fine
- Poison, extra CCWs, and maybe even Rending would be appropriate
- the force doesnt have to necessarily be Fearless

so far im thinking maybe Genestealers or Daemonettes - Hormies would have been ideal if it wasnt for Instinctive Behaviour - but i am open to suggestions.

many thanks, in advance!

cheers

~ Tim
EDIT: ive had a closer look at C: CD, and think Daemonettes are a good "counts as" option.
- they have Fleet and high Init
- DS represents the spiders emerging from hiding, either dropping down on their prey from above, or emerging from underground tunnels or from hiding in ash dunes etc
- they have plenty of attacks and rending, to go with all those claws and mandibles
- they have defensive and offensive grenades, representing (1) them shooting webs at attackers to slow them down and (2) them being able to climb over obstacles or use their webs to reach defenders in cover
- the Inv. save can be put down to their exceptional speed (dodging) or their diamond hard exoskeleton that can deflect blows
- Fearless can represent them not thinking like a human, or them dying to protect their nest and the queen

for 400 pts i can take 28 Daemonettes (leaving just 2 models spare), arranged as i like into between 2 and 5 units. i have enough pts left over to give one Transfixing Gaze, which can be represented by the "Webspinner" ability (i can paint one differently to the rest).

in terms of being a viable force, every unit is Scoring, and they can deal with Vehicles. they will be fast and deadly, but fragile.

can anyone think of a better way to represent my spiders?

if not, does anyone have any suggestions as to how i should distribute the models between the units? should i get as many models into my desired first wave as possible, in the hope of swamping opponents, or should i go for a more even split incase i dont get the half i want? should i go for multiple small units to control more Objectives, or should i go for fewer bigger units in order to minimise KP?

ive already had an idea for an Obective marker: an underground nest entrance. ive also been thinking about the colour scheme for the spiders: a shiny black carapace with red eyes, and my usual ash wastes theme for the bases. il post pics once i have something to show (so far i have built 5 spiders, including applying static grass to made hair to cover the hole where the goblin rider would usualy slot into place, and i have cleaned all the bases). cheers!

The idea sounds good. I am interested in the painting/modeling of the spiders for your game purpose. I use to have a bunch of those spiders, but they were so static looking I got rid of them.

Sounds good - for colour you mentioned Genestealers so how about the GW Studio 'nid colour (you know, the white ones)? Could look creepy for spiders...

I'm not sure about distribution within units as I've not played Daemons but looking at the numbers I'd start playing with 3 units of 10, 10 and 8 and see how it goes. The other obvious split is 4 units of 7.

Pleasepleaseplease take a musician.
We know that ant music is like bad glam rock, what's spider music like?

Albino spiders sound good (white is tough to paint though).

Are you going to have a "queen?"

White... spray them white, wash them (with a colour appropriate to the finished shading you want...new citadel washes), dry-brush them white a couple of times. Should work. Can always trial it on a a junk model first.

i could paint them bone colour quite easily (had real fun painting the skull on my Objective Comp #1 entry), but then, i dont want them to appear "undead".

i was thinking of painting them black, using black ink, and then gloss varnish to give them a shiny ("diamond hard") exoskeleton, and then giving them red eyes.

although bone colour with purple eyes would look really sinister...

since they are burrowing up from underground, and dont have Stealth etc, they dont really need to be camouflaged for their surroundings. that said, both black and bone/white would work in the ash wastes anyway (although i need to remember that the bases will be grey...).

as to unit sizes, my first thought was 7 x 4... but then i thought about Secure & Control - i dont want to have to waste too much of my offensive power babysitting the nest entrance (especially considering that i will be setting it up, so i can make sure there is some cover near by to GTG), so maybe a unit of 5 would be good.

maybe 5, 11 & 12? or 5, 7, 8 & 8?

decisions decisions... (no rush though - i can try out a few different configurations once they are built, and then paint squad markings on the bases)

hopefully i will get a few more done this afternoon while Seth is taking his nap. since i will have 2 spare models, i will be able to try out both colour schemes before committing to one of them.

im really pleased with these: i got them for about 30p a model... or a whole CP force for a tenner.

cheers!

~ Tim

Black and then black ink? What is the black ink going to do?

mattjgilbert wrote:Black and then black ink? What is the black ink going to do?

make it look extra shiny!

(hey i am no expert paint, its mostly all trial and error and writing things down when i find that they work )

from my experience, i would say that the inks are shinier than the normal paints... arent they?

cheers

~ Tim
p.s. i have never used static grass before. i used PVA glue to apply it, and found (after a couple of models) that i could blow on it while still wet to get it to all go in the same direction. do i need to do anything special before painting it? does it need another coat of PVA? (messy) or can i just paint straight onto it with my tank brush*?
*my objective when painting is to use the tank brush for as much of the model as possible.

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:or can i just paint straight onto it with my tank brush*?
*my objective when painting is to use the tank brush for as much of the model as possible.

Why not use a roller???

I painted the cultists you saw at whw with black, drybrush grey, wash black.
You can get a dark grey up to very near black like this.
Though a blue/black would be nice.

ruffian4 wrote:Why not use a roller???

believe me mate, i would if i coud.

(i was looking at all the pre-textured BFSP spider bases last night, all ranked up in a big block, and i thought: "if only i had some double sided tape to hold them all in place, i could drybrush them all at the same time with a big paintbrush..." )

ruffian4 wrote:I painted the cultists you saw at whw with black, drybrush grey, wash black.
You can get a dark grey up to very near black like this.
Though a blue/black would be nice.

blue/black is reserved for my Arbites (when i get round to buying them).

"black, drybrush grey, wash black" sounds good though.
would i need an actual black "wash" or could i just use black ink (watered down)?

cheers!

~ Tim

I used black ink, applied with a fire hose, then dabbed off any excess with (non-fluffy) loo paper!!!

Old citadel ink/wash = leaves a sheen. New citadel washes = dry totally matt

If you intend to gloss varnish them doesn't that make it shiney?

You want to paint the static grass? Well I've stained odd patches before by lightly drybrushing but it's usually applied as the finished material. I wouldn't apply haevy paint or more PVA to it although I don't know what effect you are trying to achieve(?)

Did you paint a colour under the grass before you put it on? It helps if it gets worn by hiding bald patches. I usually use brown as the undercoat.

ruffian4 wrote:I used black ink, applied with a fire hose, then dabbed off any excess with (non-fluffy) loo paper!!!

sounds like a plan!

mattjgilbert wrote:Old citadel ink/wash = leaves a sheen. New citadel washes = dry totally matt

hmm my black ink is of the newer variety (clear plastic pot with hard black plastic flip top). all my other inks and glazes are old.

mattjgilbert wrote:If you intend to gloss varnish them doesn't that make it shiney?

i said "extra shiny"!

mattjgilbert wrote:You want to paint the static grass?

yes, its supposed to be spider hair, not actual grass, so should be the same colour as the spider.

mattjgilbert wrote:Well I've stained odd patches before by lightly drybrushing but it's usually applied as the finished material. I wouldn't apply haevy paint or more PVA to it although I don't know what effect you are trying to achieve(?)

do you reckon i would need to spray on the undercoat? (would mean quite a big delay...)

mattjgilbert wrote:Did you paint a colour under the grass before you put it on? It helps if it gets worn by hiding bald patches. I usually use brown as the undercoat.

ooh no, i didnt think to do that (i hadnt decided the colour then ).
if i get bald patches i can touch them up as and when.

once i finish building them all i will have 2 spare to experiment with.

cheers

~ Tim

ruffian4 wrote:Are you going to have a "queen?"

i would really like one of these, but its too pricey for me (especially considering i only want the spider).

i will have to settle with the queen being an off board presence that the spiders want to protect, rather than being represented ingame. thats OK though.

~ Tim

You could always use one of the giant spiders or Shelob from the LotR series.