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SM List(s)

Postby jlong05 » Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:43 am

OK everybody. I have a pile of SM models. I would like to assemble 2 complete armies. I am hoping some of your more veteran players of Marines can help me out. Right now I am not certain what rules I will use, but am leaning to using the 5ed SM rules for both regardless of what I call them. However I do have a number of DA models already models up with iconography so I haven't fully ruled out a DA list also. I would appreciate any help divvying up what I have to create some good lists.

I do have a number of bits, so I can further customize these models to some degree. Basically what is listed is as assembled(However about 40 of the marines are all NOS)

Edit: Updated with list of models available.

HQ:
AoBR Captain(PW/Bolter)
DA Company Master(Combi Plasma)
Chaplain(PF/Crozius)
Librarian(Staff)

Specials;
DA Ezekial(PW)
DA Sammael Landspeeder


Elites:
Terminators;
4x Terminator Captain (SB/PW)
6x Terminator(SB/PF)
Terminator(AC/PF)
Terminator(HF/PF)
4x Terminator(LCs)
Terminator(TH/Shield)
Terminator(SB/PF/CML)

Scouts;
Scout Sgt(PF/BP)
14x Scouts(BP/CCW)
7x Scouts(Sniper)

Dreadnoughts;
Dread MM/CCW
DA Dread AC/ML
Dread LC/CCW
2x Dread LC/ML

Techmarines;
3x Techmarines with harnesses

Veterans;
DA Veterans NOS


Troops:
Tactical;
2x Marines Sgt(CS/BP)
70x Marines(Bolter)
3x Marines(ML)
2x Marines(Flamer)
Marines(Plasma)
Marines(Apothecary)
Marines(PF)
Marines(Banner)

Assault;
10x Marines(BP/CCW)


Fast Attack:
Bikes;
7x DA Bikes
11x Bikes

Assault Bikes;
2x DA Assault Bikes
Assault Bike

Land Speeders;
2x Land Speeders(AC/HB)
2x Land Speeders(Typhoon)
2x Land Speeders(No Weapons) - Thought these could be upgraded to the new scout speeder.


Heavy Support:
Devastators;
2x Marines(LC)
2x Marines(HB)
2x Marines(Plasma)
Marines(ML)

Tanks;
2x DA Whirlwinds


Other:
2x Rhinos

Any help/recommendations would be appreciated. Again I would like to create 2 armies out of this. Maybe in the 1750+ range for both, but I leave it in your hands.

Also, I am not fully against buying additional models to fill out needs if they would help either army(Such as new characters, etc...)
Last edited by jlong05 on Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby killmaimburn » Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:57 am

"2x Marines Sgt(CS/BP)" CS?

I pm'd you one you could use.And then this is one I reckon that could use up your leftovers- after the list I PM’d and a generic ish port of ravenwing into smurfs with all your bikes as troops and the assault marines backing them up etc..(I might think about that one another time.
So fun with left overs for a 3rd list- but it only took me 3 minutes to make so folks really must pick holes in it (trying to keep the fists for the raven version who'll need the CC more)

Ideas
HQ no idea- what ever suits you but I’ll go with a cheap as chips librairian with gate/veil to start
Librarian
Elites
1TH SS+4 LCs (ap2 goes on the SS, and with complex units you can stack multiples- it’s a shame you don’t have 2 though)
3SB/PF + CML + SB/PW++++3SB/PF + CML + (combat squaded)SB/PW you will actually need 1 more fist instead of the bunch of sergeants.
Techamarine in servoharness with power weapon,(+1 to cover for the place the snipers sit. )
750 on elites

Troops
7 snipers with camo cloaks(+1 to cover- so together they get a +2 up to a 2+ save)=112
10 SPassse mawines- lascanon+ flamer= in a rhino=215
10 SPassse mawines- lascanon+ plasma= in a rhino=225
=552 (a potential of 5 units that can hold objectives)


FA
1 assault bikes (heavy bolter I presume?) for contesting objectives really
HEAVY
2 whirlwinds 170
6 devs with 2 heavy bolters=126 – its not ideal it fires less and costs more and is as immobile as a pred in shooty config and with wound allocation will last less long.. but meh you needed more guns
=296

=1746 12KPs or 16 if combat squaded.(I think rhinos count?)
Function of list, ranged fire support from heavy and FA. Elites can start on the board drawing fire and then have the 10 man squad(+ maybe + techmarine) gate onto an objective (and shoot the snot out of the enemy.. ) the snipers are embedded cover.. the 5 man las with take big anti tank shots.
It does have its downsides- lack of tanks and str9 weaponry..means you’ll really suffer against the 2 landraider lists now is the time to say- "oh yeah I have 6 more missile launcher guys" (cos then we’d put them in the devastator squad ;) )

Let the shooting down of my list so that others may learn …commence !!! :lol:
Last edited by killmaimburn on Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:02 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby mattjgilbert » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:59 am

How do the scouts get a +2 for their cover saves?

Presumably the 10 man tac squads are going to split so the lascannon can sit somewhere and shoot? That means the rhinos are either mobile cover of a half empty taxi. Would a razorback be a better choice (would mean purchasing the RB bits or course...)
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Postby killmaimburn » Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:03 pm

Techmarine bolsters the 4+ where they are sat = 4+ becomes 3+ for everyone, you place your objective there.. you then stick your scouts with cloaks there(they have the stealth rule so +1 again)
+ a squad of shooty sat on your objective with a 2+ cover save :)
(I avoided razobacks as everyone expects new models soon which means costs- but yeah if you can scratch mod them with turrets that might be handy- it will cost the plasma gun in tact 2 though :)
Last edited by killmaimburn on Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby mattjgilbert » Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:19 pm

Ah I only read the scout line and my eyes ignored the techmarine above them
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Postby jlong05 » Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:37 pm

killmaimburn wrote:"2x Marines Sgt(CS/BP)" CS?

Sorry, CS = Chainsword. I was getting lazy.. It was late.

killmaimburn wrote:I pm'd you one you could use.And then this is one I reckon that could use up your leftovers- after the list I PM’d and a generic ish port of ravenwing into smurfs with all your bikes as troops and the assault marines backing them up etc..(I might think about that one another time.

Hmm. I didn't get any PMs?

killmaimburn wrote:So fun with left overs for a 3rd list- but it only took me 3 minutes to make so folks really must pick holes in it (trying to keep the fists for the raven version who'll need the CC more)

Ideas
HQ no idea- what ever suits you but I’ll go with a cheap as chips librairian with gate/veil to start
Librarian
Elites
1TH SS+4 LCs (ap2 goes on the SS, and with complex units you can stack multiples- it’s a shame you don’t have 2 though)
3SB/PF + CML + SB/PW++++3SB/PF + CML + (combat squaded)SB/PW you will actually need 1 more fist instead of the bunch of sergeants.
Techamarine in servoharness with power weapon,(+1 to cover for the place the snipers sit. )
750 on elites

Troops
7 snipers with camo cloaks(+1 to cover- so together they get a +2 up to a 2+ save)=112
10 SPassse mawines- lascanon+ flamer= in a rhino=215
10 SPassse mawines- lascanon+ plasma= in a rhino=225
=552 (a potential of 5 units that can hold objectives)


FA
1 assault bikes (heavy bolter I presume?) for contesting objectives really
HEAVY
2 whirlwinds 170
6 devs with 2 heavy bolters=126 – its not ideal it fires less and costs more and is as immobile as a pred in shooty config and with wound allocation will last less long.. but meh you needed more guns
=296

=1746 12KPs or 16 if combat squaded.(I think rhinos count?)
Function of list, ranged fire support from heavy and FA. Elites can start on the board drawing fire and then have the 10 man squad(+ maybe + techmarine) gate onto an objective (and shoot the snot out of the enemy.. ) the snipers are embedded cover.. the 5 man las with take big anti tank shots.
It does have its downsides- lack of tanks and str9 weaponry..means you’ll really suffer against the 2 landraider lists now is the time to say- "oh yeah I have 6 more missile launcher guys" (cos then we’d put them in the devastator squad ;) )


OK. Interesting list. I do have additional bits(TH/SS for a termie.. maybe a few (1-4) additional missle launcher bits for marines.. This is why I was asking for ideas. If the ML in a Dev squad is the way to go, I am there.. even If I need to bits order a couple more sets.

EDIT: Forgot to add. I also have other unused bits likes 3 - 4 Powerfists, an extra Lightning Claw all for reg marines.
Last edited by jlong05 on Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby killmaimburn » Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:06 pm

Well no a missile dev isn't the way.. but its A way if you have 2 missiles lying about the place that doesn't require any money spent on your behalf..that will bolster the number of shots coming from you that threatens enemy tanks.
the new smurfs its really hard to get a lascannon anywhere really and having some anti tank/anti termie should be a prime concern when amending a basic list.

The PM I sent got lost to the ether becuase my sent box was 100% (my inbox only 90%) so I've sent you a quickly scrawled duplicate)
I was trying to keep the fists off this one,(I figure that 9 veiling into the army core is enough :) )
1) list is all troops and dreads
2) is all bikes assualt marines and Fist guys (ravenwing like) I'm struggling a bit with it though as it really wants those typhoons to go with it.. but I'm not sure how they'll play.
3) is the one listed here..
With interchanging the transports should be fairly doable.. :)

Just put two missile launchers in where I have heavy bolters (straight swap).
If you do bump the rhinos up to razorbacks with twinlinked heavy bolters (by losing the plasma gun??)- you might try to squidge the attack bike up to multimelta to help threaten tanks ( but you'd need to find 6 points somewhere).. and yes if you have the spare stormshield and thunder hammer put it on.. tis the cheese of doom.
Try not to buy stuff :)

Wheres Ljundhammer :idea:
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Postby mattjgilbert » Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:19 pm

I agree that 2 TH/SS in the termie squad is much better.

Dev squads always seem best when you max out on a mode of firing (4 x HBs, 4 x ML, 4 x PC etc) - with 4 though you might need the extra ablative marines to ensure they stay alive.
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Postby killmaimburn » Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:37 pm

Yeah the 1 weapon one ablative (1:1)was pretty much killed off by complex units I reckon its about 1 to 2 ablatives ish now (1:2)(someone has to be really bothered about the squad to make the specials go down first turn then)
Hence 2 special weapons and 4 ablatives (1:2) but there are much cheaper ways to get guns in there.. heavy bolter dev= predator ,multimelta dev= vindicator.. las or missile.. very expensive and work better as 5 man inside a combat squad if possible (5 man missile possible through scouts but BS is a shockker)
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Postby jlong05 » Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:58 pm

OK. new question. YOu all have been recommending upgrades of the Rhinos to Razorbacks. I assume for the Twin-links Lascannon. I only have 1 of these cannons(and will have to convert a turret for it, but I do have the old OOP 2ed(I think) Lascannon with Twin-linked Plasma. The cost between them is the same, but is this still a good upgrade?
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Postby killmaimburn » Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:26 pm

No its not for the upgrades..a basic razorback has a twinlinked heavy bolter on it and costs the same as an attack bike. In a list where putting heavy bolters into infantry squads is now restrictive (e.g. no 5man HB plas, scouts BS \/ etc a devastater with a heavy bolter costing 31 points etc) multiple 40 point tanks are the best thing in the world (trust me ;))..doubling their cost to get one extra shot at less range is fragile and not very efficient.. using it to get a lascannon in is again not great (I'd look at a list and try for vindicator landraider or a 5man combatted squad with a las in instead if possible).That said las plas razorback is definitly more worth a chuckle than some of the other builds :) (they are like whirlwinds but don't take up an FOC slot, treat them like that)
hope it helps :)
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Postby jlong05 » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:38 pm

OK. That makes sense. Doesn't help as I don't have the HB bits. I guess I can always still purchase them through bits ordering sites.

Also I forgot, I have:
10x Deathwatch modeled and painted. They are actually modeled as a DA Deathwatch though. So I will probably place them in a DA army(even if that list is only using the 5ed rules and not the DA codex rules.

Overall, am I better using the 5ed rules regardless of what 'chapter' I state my marines are? Or are the DA rules still viable in 5ed. I know it is the only way to get scoring Terminators, but is that really enough of a benefot to discount the other advantages that 5ed SMs get?
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Postby killmaimburn » Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:33 am

DA, by our group (and by internet moaners until an FAQ) are basically usefull if you take deathwing- having 5 scoring terminator squads etc..
Ravenwing its debatable,as in it depends what you can ekk out of it (including the whole RAW do their combat squadded devastators/speeders both count as scoring units) heres kings quick transaltaion from one to another http://www.ageofstrife.com/modules.php? ... =ravenwing . Basic- naw I'd use their bling for smurfs (e.g. deathwatch are sternguard- the variable weaponry etc (the special heavy bolter has moved to being a scout upgrade though..)
But you know me I class as an internet moaner I'm sure someone out there might have an alternate opinion.
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Postby jlong05 » Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:25 pm

OK, Given the plethora of model. I decided to make a DA Ravenwing list(1850) and then I will evaluate what I have left to make another 5ed SM list of another chapter.

Here is my Ravenwing list.

1850 Pts - Dark Angels Roster

HQ: Sammael, Master of the Ravenwing (1#, 205 Pts)
1 Sammael, Master of the Ravenwing @ 205 Pts
On Land Speeder
1 ...on Land Speeder @ [205] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol; Twin Linked Assault Cannon; Twin Linked Heavy Bolter

Troops: Sammael's Ravenwing Attack Squadron (8#, 455 Pts)
1 Sammael's Ravenwing Attack Squadron @ 455 Pts
Bike Squad; Attack Bike; Land Speeder
5 Bike Squad @ [305] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x5); Twin Linked Bolter (x5); Meltagun (x2); Teleport Homer; Apothecary
1 Apothecary @ [0] Pts
1 Narthecium @ [0] Pts
1 Reductor @ [0] Pts
1 Sergeant @ [65] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x1); Power Fist; Twin Linked Bolter (x1); Teleport Homer
1 Ravenwing Company Banner @ [0] Pts
1 Attack Bike @ [50] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x1); Twin Linked Bolter (x1); Multi-Melta; Teleport Homer
1 Land Speeder @ [100] Pts
Heavy Bolter; Assault Cannon

Troops: Ravenwing Attack Squadron (8#, 405 Pts)
1 Ravenwing Attack Squadron @ 405 Pts
Bike Squad; Attack Bike; Land Speeder
5 Bike Squad @ [255] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x5); Twin Linked Bolter (x5); Flamer (x2); Teleport Homer
1 Sergeant @ [65] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x1); Power Fist; Twin Linked Bolter (x1); Teleport Homer
1 Attack Bike @ [50] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x1); Twin Linked Bolter (x1); Heavy Bolter; Teleport Homer
1 Land Speeder @ [100] Pts
Heavy Bolter; Assault Cannon

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 215 Pts)
9 Tactical Squad @ 215 Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x9); Bolter (x7); Flamer; Missile Launcher
1 Rhino @ [35] Pts
Storm Bolter; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers
1 Sergeant @ [18] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x1); Bolter (x1)

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 215 Pts)
9 Tactical Squad @ 215 Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x9); Bolter (x7); Flamer; Missile Launcher
1 Rhino @ [35] Pts
Storm Bolter; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers
1 Sergeant @ [18] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x1); Bolter (x1)

Elite: Scout Squad (10#, 205 Pts)
9 Scout Squad @ 205 Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x9); Bolter (x3); Sniper Rifle (x5); Heavy Bolter
1 Sergeant @ [36] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Melta Bombs; Bolt Pistol (x1); Power Weapon

Fast Attack: Ravenwing Support Squadron (1#, 75 Pts)
1 Ravenwing Support Squadron @ 75 Pts
Heavy Bolter (x1); Typhoon Multiple Missile Launcher

Fast Attack: Ravenwing Support Squadron (1#, 75 Pts)
1 Ravenwing Support Squadron @ 75 Pts
Heavy Bolter (x1); Typhoon Multiple Missile Launcher

Total Roster Cost: 1850

I still think I will have the excess models to actually fill this out further(probably to 2500 points) but that list will likely see the Dreads and Whirlwinds as a primary part.

What do you all think?

My basic idea is to split all units into Combat Squads.(Although I may keep the bikes together for the larger unit size). Basically I have Sammaels Squad kitted for tank killing and general support). The other is for enemy troop removal(Flamers and HBs). My Tactical squads are for taking and holding objectives. The support squads are to help out wherever needed with the missiles, and the scouts are designed to split(1 sniper unit to pin potentially bad enemy units) and the other to infiltrate where possible for tank killing using the MeltaBombs.

Good/Bad/Indifferent?
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