Hi all

(topic linked to this thread: [C:WH] SoB Faith Points/Martyrdom Question
http://www.ageofstrife.com/modules.php? ... =2881#2881 - please take a look)

Ive written a quick SoB CP list, based around making a pimped out Rhino from the leftover bits i will get in the Exorcist box (when i eventually get it, see link) - using the fancy armour plates, the SoB doors/hatches/icons/general bling, and the Immolator top-plate (ive heard it looks rather cool put together as a Rhino).

Im new to the SoB parts of the WH codex, so i thought i would post the list so you can check its all correct/legal/adds up right. Im also interested to hear how you think it would do in a fluffy/balanced enviroment.

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Sisters of Battle Combat Patrol [400 Pts Army List]

FAITH POINTS: 2

[148 pts] Battle Sisters Squad [10 models + Transport]
Veteran Sister Superior: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Krak Grenades
7 Battle Sisters: Bolters
1 Battle Sister: Melta Gun
1 Battle Sister: Heavy Flamer
[78 pts] Rhino: Storm Bolter, Extra Armour, Holy Icon, Laud Hailer, Smoke Launchers

[174 pts] Seraphim Squad [6 models]
Veteran Sister Superior: Bolt Pistol, Power Weapon, Frag & Krak Grenades, Jump Pack
3 Seraphim: 2 x Bolt Pistols, Frag & Krak Grenades, Jump Packs
1 Seraphim: 2 x Inferno Pistols, Frag & Krak Grenades, Jump Pack
1 Seraphim: 2 x Hand Flamers, Frag & Krak Grenades, Jump Pack

both units have the ability to deal with Walkers/other vehicles in CC (Kraks), and both can take out Vehicles with shooting. both have a Template weapon to deal with hordes and good mobility to make the best use of it. both have some ranged anti-MEQ ability as standard, and the Seraphim Superior should pack a punch in CC (4 Power Weapon Attacks on the charge). both have good Ld (9), and have it boosted further (Holy Icon/Angelic Visage).

the idea is that the Battle Sister start in the Rhino (out of sight or at least Obscured), which advances 12" and pops Smoke. Seraphim start out of LOS and use the Rhino as a moving wall, moving 12" also.
next turn the Sisters Disembark into Cover and shoot, the Seraphim jump over the Rhino, shoot and charge. the Rhino can move forward if the Sisters need to get closer before they Disembark, can provide covering fire, shield the SoB from enemy shooting and can Tank Shock (with modifier from Laud Hailer).
thats the plan anyway... Acts of Faith will be a bonus, or an equaliser is something goes wrong.

thoughts? could this work? is the list both correct and solid?

cheers

~ Tim

There are some wasted points that prevent you from getting optimal performance from your squads.

Drop the Holy Icon and Laud Hailer from the Rhino. Upgrade 1 Sister in the BSS to Imagifier. The Imagifier is far more useful to the unit then the Holy Icon and Laud Hailer especially in using Acts of Faith. Keep the bolter on the VSS since it's more useful then a bolt pistol.

Up your Seraphim squad to 8 and give them melta bombs. Take hand flamers due to you having melta bombs which takes care of anti-tank.

Add Books of St. Lucius to both VSS. With the changes the list comes in at 492 points.

ThePatriot wrote:There are some wasted points that prevent you from getting optimal performance from your squads.

Drop the Holy Icon and Laud Hailer from the Rhino.

"optimal performance" isnt the very top priority with the list (fluffy/balanced enviroment, remember ).

the Rhino model is going to be pimped to the max - an armoured rolling shrine, so Holy Icon + Laud Hailer seem perfect ways of representing this, IMO (along with Extra Armour). bolstering the resolve of the SoBs while striking fear into the hearts of the enemies of the Emperor.

ThePatriot wrote:Upgrade 1 Sister in the BSS to Imagifier. The Imagifier is far more useful to the unit then the Holy Icon and Laud Hailer especially in using Acts of Faith.

while the Imagifier looks cool, i hadnt included one due to the cost - it seems a lot of points to pay for a AoF re-roll -especially considering i might only get 2 FPs in a game, and the Seraphim already get a re-roll. the BSS will probably only want to use (almost said "cast" ) Divine Guidance anyway, which they will only fail on an 11 or 12. i thought the points could get me more for the list (like an extra Jump Packer) if spent elsewhere.

ThePatriot wrote:Keep the bolter on the VSS since it's more useful then a bolt pistol.

i originally wrote in the Bolter (to help when Disembarking & Shooting), but swapped it when i realised the boxed set comes with a Superior with Plasma Pistol & Chainsword (i thought i could swap the Plasma Pistol for are Bolt Pistol, and this might help if the unit is charged, or if they charge in to help out the Seraphim).

i suppose i could always swap the Plasma Pistol for a Bolter, and leave the Chainsword there as decoration (theres no ingame effect for a single CCW anyway)... you think it would be worth losing the extra attack in CC (and the pistol shot before charging) to gain an extra shot when Disembarking (and the shot over 12" when stationary)?

ThePatriot wrote:Up your Seraphim squad to 8 and give them melta bombs. Take hand flamers due to you having melta bombs which takes care of anti-tank.

i was afraid of relying just on Grenades for the Seraphim's anti-tank, firstly due to the fact that it could take an extra turn to reach the target (compared to getting into Inferno Pistol range), and due to the fact that il often need 6's to hit in CC.

i didnt take any Meltabombs because i dont really think i would need them in CP - they will be attacking AV10-11 most of the time - at most AV12 - so this is within the realm of the humble Krak, IMO.

ThePatriot wrote:Add Books of St. Lucius to both VSS.

i didnt take these as i didnt think i would need them - both units start at Ld 9 and go up to Ld 10 when sticking together. theres no Ordnance Barrage in CP so thats one Pinning Modifier i wouldnt have to worry about - and if i pick my targets well and soften them up before charging, i shouldnt have to worry about outnumbering in CC too much either. neither of the VSS models are holding books, either (if they had been, that would have gone in the favour of the BoSL).

ThePatriot wrote:With the changes the list comes in at 492 points.

err... thats 92 points over!

considering what ive said (and the 400 pts limit), what do you think now about my choices?

cheeers

~ Tim

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:

ThePatriot wrote:There are some wasted points that prevent you from getting optimal performance from your squads.

Drop the Holy Icon and Laud Hailer from the Rhino.

"optimal performance" isnt the very top priority with the list (fluffy/balanced enviroment, remember ).

the Rhino model is going to be pimped to the max - an armoured rolling shrine, so Holy Icon + Laud Hailer seem perfect ways of representing this, IMO (along with Extra Armour). bolstering the resolve of the SoBs while striking fear into the hearts of the enemies of the Emperor.

ThePatriot wrote:Upgrade 1 Sister in the BSS to Imagifier. The Imagifier is far more useful to the unit then the Holy Icon and Laud Hailer especially in using Acts of Faith.

while the Imagifier looks cool, i hadnt included one due to the cost - it seems a lot of points to pay for a AoF re-roll -especially considering i might only get 2 FPs in a game, and the Seraphim already get a re-roll. the BSS will probably only want to use (almost said "cast" ) Divine Guidance anyway, which they will only fail on an 11 or 12. i thought the points could get me more for the list (like an extra Jump Packer) if spent elsewhere.

ThePatriot wrote:Keep the bolter on the VSS since it's more useful then a bolt pistol.

i originally wrote in the Bolter (to help when Disembarking & Shooting), but swapped it when i realised the boxed set comes with a Superior with Plasma Pistol & Chainsword (i thought i could swap the Plasma Pistol for are Bolt Pistol, and this might help if the unit is charged, or if they charge in to help out the Seraphim).

i suppose i could always swap the Plasma Pistol for a Bolter, and leave the Chainsword there as decoration (theres no ingame effect for a single CCW anyway)... you think it would be worth losing the extra attack in CC (and the pistol shot before charging) to gain an extra shot when Disembarking (and the shot over 12" when stationary)?

ThePatriot wrote:Up your Seraphim squad to 8 and give them melta bombs. Take hand flamers due to you having melta bombs which takes care of anti-tank.

i was afraid of relying just on Grenades for the Seraphim's anti-tank, firstly due to the fact that it could take an extra turn to reach the target (compared to getting into Inferno Pistol range), and due to the fact that il often need 6's to hit in CC.

i didnt take any Meltabombs because i dont really think i would need them in CP - they will be attacking AV10-11 most of the time - at most AV12 - so this is within the realm of the humble Krak, IMO.

ThePatriot wrote:Add Books of St. Lucius to both VSS.

i didnt take these as i didnt think i would need them - both units start at Ld 9 and go up to Ld 10 when sticking together. theres no Ordnance Barrage in CP so thats one Pinning Modifier i wouldnt have to worry about - and if i pick my targets well and soften them up before charging, i shouldnt have to worry about outnumbering in CC too much either. neither of the VSS models are holding books, either (if they had been, that would have gone in the favour of the BoSL).

ThePatriot wrote:With the changes the list comes in at 492 points.

err... thats 92 points over!

considering what ive said (and the 400 pts limit), what do you think now about my choices?

cheeers

~ Tim

1. My Immy's are pimped out with holy icons and a laud hailer on the model. I just don't buy the upgrades.

2. Actually, the Imagifier gives you an additional dice for Acts of Faith test. You pick the best two dice.

3. Due to the miniatures being all metal and with the high costs associated with individual miniatures opponents are forgiving of WYSIWYG when it comes to Sisters. Just make sure that before the game that you let them know that the VSS is carrying a bolter instead of a pistol. Keep the power weapon since she's carrying a sword anyway.

4. You don't want to split the unit's role by dividing up the heavy weapons. It works good for regular squads, Dominions, and Retributers, but not so good with Seraphim. You have to decide which do you want and since this is combat patrol facing a tank like a Russ or Land Raider will be rare. Melta bombs would be adequate for the type of tanks you'll be facing while keeping the pie plates of doom.

5. Up to you on the books, but for 5 points it gives your sisters the same leadership value for testing.

Overall, your list is pretty good. However, when you want higher points involved for your army sometimes you have to sacrifice on the options.

I would drop the inferno pistols and replace them with hand flamers for the seraphim. Also, give the seraphim vet melta bombs, and swap the sister vets krak grenades for melta bombs.
(If) I have my sums right, that shouldn't change the points cost.
This should give you a little more bite against tanks, and an extra flamer against hordes.
I would treat faith as an extra bonus for combat patrol, as you only have two points. I suggest divine guidance!

I wouldnt worry about the book of st lucius in such a small game, as you have the angelic visage and holy icon.
As to giving the vet sister a bolter, well it would be more useful for the units primary role, which is shooting infantry. Convert the model however you see fit. It is only one bolter shot after all! I have some of the old models that have a bolter and power sword. No one minds that she only has the bolter in the army list.

OK, so hows this for a 2nd draft:

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Sisters of Battle Combat Patrol [400 Pts Army List]

FAITH POINTS: 2

[151 pts] Battle Sisters Squad [10 models + Transport]
Veteran Sister Superior: Bolter, Melta Bombs
7 Battle Sisters: Bolters
1 Battle Sister: Melta Gun
1 Battle Sister: Heavy Flamer
[78 pts] Rhino: Storm Bolter, Extra Armour, Holy Icon, Laud Hailer, Smoke Launchers

[171 pts] Seraphim Squad [6 models]
Veteran Sister Superior: Bolt Pistol, Power Weapon, Frag Grenades, Melta Bombs, Jump Pack
3 Seraphim: 2 x Bolt Pistols, Frag & Krak Grenades, Jump Packs
2 Seraphim: 2 x Hand Flamers, Frag & Krak Grenades, Jump Pack

im a little concerned by only having one ranged anti-tank shot per turn... while Melta Bombs are great, they probably wont make into into contact until at least turn 3, and when they do thats just a 1 in 6 chance of even scoring a hit.

against MEQs, that second Flamer will need to hit 4-5 Marines (on average) in order to score as many kills as the Inferno Pistols. while that doesnt sound too hard, we need to remember the Multiple Templates rule: casualties from the first Template (and the Bolt Pistols, the way i play it) will be removed before the second Template is placed.

although if you factor Cover Saves into the comparison (and i like a lot of Terrain), you only need about 2-3 hits to score as many wounds as the Inferno Pistols would... so i suppose thats not too bad.

against hordes/GEQs they would rock, though.

im just worried about what happens when they deploy 31" away from an AV12 Chimera...

on the plus side, it saves me the trouble of finding 2 Inferno Pistols...

as to the Bolter/WYSIWYG thing:

part of the reason why im building Combat Patrols is that you need fewer models, which means cost isnt so much of an issue, and more attention can be lavished upon each trooper. im a big fan of WYSIWYG anyway, but at this level im a bit of a stickler for it - so i would convert to show the right weapons, heck, i would even show the Melta Bombs (the AdMech SM Combat Patrol im half-way through building has a 10 man marine squad with BP, CCW & Frags - as well as having the weapons shown, every model is getting a holster for their pistol and im showing all the Frags too).

cheers

~ Tim

True, you only have one ranged anti tank shot, but how many tanks do you see in combat patrol? The one's you might face are low armour anyway, or have firepower that can be saved by your armour. I wouldn't worry too much about them.
The toughest tank you will face is a Tau devilfish. Good armour and a skimmer, but lowish firepower.
Walker wise, Killer Kans will be a problem, because you don't want to get into combat with your melta bombs except as a last ditch resort.
But this is why I love combat patrol. You have to make many careful decisions with army selection and take gambles.

Edit: As a thought, it might be worthwhile taking Kans on in close combat with the seraphim. You could use a faith point to get spirit of the martyr (inv saves). This shouldn't be a problem with the seraphims built in simulacrum imperialis. Then you could put all those melta bomb and krak grenades on it. Risky though...

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:OK, so hows this for a 2nd draft:

part of the reason why im building Combat Patrols is that you need fewer models, which means cost isnt so much of an issue, and more attention can be lavished upon each trooper. im a big fan of WYSIWYG anyway, but at this level im a bit of a stickler for it - so i would convert to show the right weapons, heck, i would even show the Melta Bombs (the AdMech SM Combat Patrol im half-way through building has a 10 man marine squad with BP, CCW & Frags - as well as having the weapons shown, every model is getting a holster for their pistol and im showing all the Frags too).

cheers

~ Tim

It is Very easy to covert the VSS with Plasma and a CCW to holding a Stormbolter one handed using the additonal pintle mounte SB you get with the immolator kit. You even end up with a stormbolter with a Fleur de Lis instead of the imperial eagle...

Man, this forum is really hard to use. It's going to take a while for me to get used to them.

Here are my comments on your list.

1. Combat Patrols suck for Sisters of Battle. They really, really suck. We lose the Canoness and Exorcist in these games. The Canoness is a huge blow (a source of 4 Faith and a rock-hard character), especially if you are using Seraphim. I really recommend you just skip over CPs and go to 500pt games.

2. You need Books of St Lucius on your VSSs. This is a critical piece of wargear because it cancels out negatives on Ld tests. This is much better than the Laud Hailer and Holy Icon (which I would drop).

3. With a Meltagun in this squad and Meltabombs on your Seraphim VSS, you really don't need Meltabombs on your SoB VSS. You shouldn't be facing that much armor in a CP anyway.

4. Six Seraphim are too few to reliably get off Divine Guidance, you shouldn't need it in CPs but keep it in mind. I recommend bumping the squad size to 8 as soon as you play at higher levels.

In response to your comment:

5. The main difference between Hand Flamers and Inferno Pistols is Divine Guidance. Two DG hand flamers are devastating to SM armies. Seraphim really need Divine Guidance to live up to their full potential. Since you are starting with a unit size of 6, this is going to be tough. I'd really try to find the points to get 8 Seraphim.

Don't expect to win a lot of CP games, but don't give up hope they get better as the points build.