cgra1 wrote: with good use of Drones, and the arming of suits differently with the Wound allocation rules can turn a good shooting round into a dead drone or 2.

This was the bit I got tripped up on.
Rules bit
a) if an IC buys a drone as wargear can it be used to have a wound forced onto the IC allocated onto it instead (like inquisitors with their bullet shields)
so 1IC 2 blokes 1 Shield saves, but instead its 2 blokes and 2 shield
b) can an unsaved (failed)save from the IC be allocated to the sheild? (It wasn't game breaking (I'm not even sure it was used) but my opponent led me to believe this was true (we were playing smoke and mirrors with each other he didn't exactly state as fact, just left it open with the impression I had to know more and cite a counter)

tactics bit.. should suits really be equipped differently?
I thought very like termicide mixing weaponry meant wasted potential (and therefore you had to strike a balance).. or are their enough gadgets (rubbish wargear just to add groups) and staggered shooting from a unit to make nothing wasted?

What BDA said!

In this game you need troops to be able to grab/hold objectives - the kroot are very good at what they do but do fold if picked on. 2 full units of firewarriors with an upgraded bonding knifed up leader in SMS equipped devil fish + defensive upgrades is the order of the day. Keep these guys out of trouble for as long as possible and they will win you the game by stealing objectives in turns 4 and 5.

Fireknife config for all the suits is a must - don't specialise - maybe equip the Shas'El/Shas'O with flamers and or Meltas and use him to hunt down those tricky targets if you feel the need. I personally would not use the retinues.

I like to keep my suits quite lean so no snazzy equipment - they are expensive enough as they are.

Fully tooled up Railheads are IMO one of the best tanks in the game - I would try to take 2

Lastly keep mobile - I don't like deep striking - too random - seen it backfire much more often than I have seen it pay dividends - soo keep your suits on the table - they represent too great a portion of your fire power to be kept in reserve for 2 or more turns (or to deep strike badly and be lost).

Cheers guys,

I've had pointer from here & elsewhere.

Ninja tau looks like you need a few games under your belt to see how the army works before you go down that route. To that end, I'm shoving together a non-ninja list & see how that goes (see below). But I do have some specific questions:

1) Crisis configuation: At 1500 pts, having too many plasma rifles seems counter productive. They appear to cost too much to allow enough to make much of a difference & simpley have 'shoot me' written all over them. Missile pods seem better simpley to get saturation of fire. Is that fair?

2) Crisis configuration: My obsession with an 18" wall of death squad seems to be my undoing. In order to get this to work I need to spend an inordinant amount of points. For roughly the same points, I can get a couple of warfish with roughly the same shooting capability... I think I get that now! But is there any way it could work (I still hanker after it so!)

3) Skyray: Boy do I like the lok of that tank! But it seems you need a lot of markerlights to be able to use it well... Is that right?

Anyway - enough babbling!

Tau - NON-NINJA 1500pts

Long range shooting:
Heavy: Broadsides - 288pts
Shas'ui team leader - TLRG, SMS, A.S.S. HW blacksun filter, HW target lock, HW drone controller, 2 x shield drones
Shas'ui x 2 - TLRG, SMS, A.S.S.

Elite: Crisis team - 209pts
Shas'vre - TLMP, positional relay, bonding knife, HW drone controller, 2 x shield drones
Shas-ui x 2 - TLMP, TA
Do I need the shield here? I think I'm falling into the 'toy trap'. I've left the positional relay in for my suicide HQ (see below) and the flexability

Mid range shooting & troops:
Fast: Pathfinder team - 168pts
Pathfinders x 4
Devilfish - BC, DP, SMS, Marker beacon, MT, TA

Troop: Firewarriors - 180pts
Firewarriors x 6
Devilfish - BC, DP, SMS, MT, TA

Troop: Firewarriors - 180pts
Firewarriors x 6
Devilfish - BC, DP, SMS, MT, TA

I think the fish might be more useful with FDs - the only way to get them in the list seems to be dropping drones on crisis suits - does that seem sensible?

Close up teams & troops:
HQ: Shas'el - 87pts
Shas'el - FB, PR, MT
This guy is pretty cheap & cheerful for a nice suicide unit, but is my only terminator killer - I'd like more, but I'm not sure how to best squeeze one in!

Elite: crisis team - 169pts
Shas'ui team leader - MP, TLFlamer, bonding knife, HW drone controller, 2 x shield drones
Shas'ui x 2 - MP, TLFlamer
If the enemy isn't up for being flamed, I can hang back & use the MPs instead, or DS for back armour shots...

Troop: kroot - 112pts
10 x kroot
7 x kroot hounds

Troop: kroot - 106pts
10 x kroot
6 x kroot hounds

Total points: 1499
Total suits: 10 (my absolute minimum for the moment)
Total drones: 6
Other infantry: 49
Vehicles: 3

This feels better & I think I'm getting there...

I'm not sure on the drones, but I've not gone down the wound allocation route so I've put them in for now. I'd like someone to partner my IC in his death drop, I think I can get it to work if I juggle his role with a long range squad then add in another crisis elite team - but I'll try that later (the configurations are midboggling!)

Any comment & critism as always are welcomed with open arms!

On mixed weaponry suits
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost. ... tcount=779

Drone where not needed? remember if your DSing thats a tiny base..My opponent on sunday used the smaller base to start the circle so that there was less chance of a mishap (also means if it lands in DT you can blossom so that only it does)

I've got to say your first list, after first edit, got me all squiggly and I started scratching out a bunch of FOC filling based chaos and orks
We should have a new armies day so we both suck.

killmaimburn wrote:On mixed weaponry suits
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost. ... tcount=779

Interesting - it fits with my preconceived notions!

killmaimburn wrote:I've got to say your first list, after first edit, got me all squiggly and I started scratching out a bunch of FOC filling based chaos and orks
We should have a new armies day so we both suck.

Yeah, I quite liked the look of it, but tau players don't

mmm my thinkingon how to play tau - generally - is lots of shots, massed firepower.

Tau's AP2 and AP3 weaponry are few and costly.

Having seens what a Punisher cannon can do, the sound of 24 S5 firewarrior shots along with another 24 from the fish next to it, onto a unit that has been 'markered' for death, is something I would like to see.

Mobility and rate of fire = Tau with a large spice of S10 AP1 tank killing thrown in.

Well I guess that chap doesn't like Fireknives!

I never bought into that mathhammer about the Plasmaguns being useless in 5th Ed they work well enough for me. BDA always liked to twin link MPs whiched seemed to work for him.

The fireknives have the range to engage mutual targets allowing you to concentrate fire on the main threat (all Tau players must make a threat list based on what will get into combat with them first, then second etc etc) and then having options to go after the next threat once that is eliminated.

The problem is that the Burst cannon, Flamer and Melta force you to put your Crisis suits into harms way (read: potential close combat) earlier than normal - in my experiance they tend to die the turn after they land.

Yes 3 suits dropping danger close to a mob of orks and flaming the feth out of them is all well and good (and it has to be said really fun when it works) but if you don't wipe them out then your suits are toast in the Orks turn - and anyway a half decent ork player will expect this and have a contingency.

BC + MP might be a better option if you are expecting lots of cover but I still think that the PG has its place especially against An army with 3+ and 2+ saves.

Keep the suicide Shas'el - I used to have mine toting a flamer, Melta and plasma with hardwired wargear to hunt down those difficult to scratch targets.

2 full squads of firewarriors in defence minded devilfish (these guys stay safe and grab objectives or later in the game hunt down survivors/support your crisis suits).

If you want lots of shots drop one of your crisis squads in favour of a stealth Suit Squad but I always thought that they were expensive for what they are.

I've been playing around with lists & I've come up with this little beauty:

Tau 1500 points

Long range section:
HQ: Sha'el - 136pts
Shas'el - flamer, missile pod, positional relay, bonding knife, HW drone controller, HW target lock (TL), Iridium armour, stimulant injector, shield drone
Joins the Broadside team - positional relay means I can accruately DS (with PF devilfish) either the Helios (PR/FB) squad, and/or the flamer squad depending on requirements - or not if needed. His stim injector, iridium armour & drone beef up the survivability of the Broadsides.

Heavy: Broadside team - 180pts
Team leader - ASS, shield drone
Broadside - ASS
Big things go boom

Elite: Deathrain crisis squad - 198pts
Team leader - TL missile pod, targetting array (TA), Bonding knife, HWTL, 2 x shield drones
Crisis suit - TL missile pod, TA
Crisis suit - TL missile pod, flamer
The 3rd suit is equiped differently for 3 reasons - 1) defence, the flamer lets me flame something that gets too close for comfort, 2) wound allocation, 3) points!

Mid range firepower:
Elite: Helios Crisis team - 241pts
Team leader - Plasma rifle, fusion blaster, TA, bonding knife, HW multi tracker (MT), HWTL, 2 x shield drones
Crisis suit - Plasma rifle, fusion blaster, MT
Crisis suit - Plasma rifle, fusion blaster, MT
Go on, get your tank/ SM squad in range of this - I dare you! Can DS on turn 2 with the positional relay & re-roll scatter from devilfish...

Troop: Firewarrior team - 180pts
6 x firewarriors - pulse rifles
Devilfish - burscannon, disruption pod, multi tracker, smart missile system (SMS), TA
Bring on the warfish! 7 strength 5 shots at BS4 when moving at 6"

Close range firepower:
Elite: Crisis team - 143pts
Team leader - TL missile pod, flamer, HWTL
Crisis suit - missile pod, TL flamer
Crisis suit - missile pod, TL flamer
These guys play a deathrain role in the early game & move in to flame stuff when it starts going wrong! They can DS for a juicy flamer target, in which case the team leader can pop a couple of missiles at nearby tank if the option arrises while the TL flamers do the job on the infantry...

Support roles:
Fast: Pathfinder team - 168pts
4 x pathfinders
Devilfish - burstcannon, disruption pod, multi tracker, marker beacon, smart missile system (SMS), TA
4 marker lights & a warfish - yay! The DF is likely to be 'gifted' to some firewarriors

Fast: Pathfinder team - 133pts
4 x pathfinders
Devilfish - burstcannon, disruption pod, marker beacon
More markerlights - yes I know it increases my KP, but my opponent needs to kill 2 units to rid me of markerlights & I have 2 fish to re-roll DS if needed. Not a warfish, but the Drones can be useful for objective contesting...

Troops: Firewarrior team - 60pts
6 x firewarriors - pulse rifles
DAVU!

Troops: Firewarrior team - 60pts
6 x firewarriors - pulse rifles
DAVU!

Total points: 1,499
Total suits: 12
Total drones: 6 (8 with devilfish)
Other infantry: 18
Vehicles: 3
KP: 14 (including DF drones)

Any thoughts...

P.S. I am working on the army, I put together my first unit of Firewarriors last night - they get sprayed tonight.