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40k, who stuck with it?

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40k, who stuck with it?

Postby BANE » Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:28 pm

Like the title says, who is still playing 40k? Stuck with 5th or moved to 6th.

40k is still my no1 game, I have bought into 6th and although its early days I feel its one of the most thought out and best written editions, I have played on and off since RT so I have some experience to compare and I ain't particularly fond of change so making me happy is a surprise. Only gripe so far is fortifications seem to have moved the game more to static gun lines trading fire which doesn't suit my play style but I suppose it is more realistic for a game based in the far future.

Any thoughts?
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Re: 40k, who stuck with it?

Postby mattjgilbert » Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:33 pm

I've not tried 6th ed yet - well not properly. Only one of the guys so far has a copy of the rulebook so far and we are playing so many different gaming systems now it's been hard to find the time to get into it. BDA did take me through a brief game (we threw a few models on the table and tried out what he could remember) but that's about it. It probably amounted to 500 points each and then we were only guessing.

I got jaded with all the endless rules debates and multiple books you needed to have a handle on in order to play either 40K or WHFB and since playing less... verbose gaming systems, am struggling to find the will power to re-engage to be honest.

I do want to give it a proper go at some point though.
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Re: 40k, who stuck with it?

Postby BANE » Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:39 pm

I get your point on old 40k rules debates and whfb rule checking. 6th ed is set out much like whfb but they have achieved it much better which is why I like 6th a whole load better because its so much clearer to start with.
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Re: 40k, who stuck with it?

Postby Baragash » Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:55 pm

mattjgilbert wrote:I got jaded with all the endless rules debates and multiple books you needed to have a handle on in order to play either 40K or WHFB and since playing less... verbose gaming systems, am struggling to find the will power to re-engage to be honest.


^This. Too much documentation required to play the game now.

TBH my issue with 6th is that I didn't want a new game, just an improved 5th, plus I can't envisage any time in my life where I don't think the wound allocation rules are a load of junk.
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Re: 40k, who stuck with it?

Postby BANE » Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:15 pm

Sammi, are you referring to 5th or 6th wound allocation?
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Re: 40k, who stuck with it?

Postby mattjgilbert » Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:44 pm

I think he means 6th - I recall him commenting on it when the book came out.
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Re: 40k, who stuck with it?

Postby Baragash » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:44 pm

6th
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Re: 40k, who stuck with it?

Postby BANE » Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:49 am

I see 6th ed wound allocation as a massive improvement over 5th, its not perfect but I can't think of another way of doing it that doesn't have its own set of problems.
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Re: 40k, who stuck with it?

Postby DaBoss » Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:25 am

Having played only 5 games in 6th edition - I'm 50/50 with the way things have gone.
I've found 99% of the rules an improvement on the game, it's much more brutal and destructive. But I still have some concerns and reservations:
1) Wound allocation is still a problem, shooting not so much as you can place models to most effective place or defended. But combat is an issue especially dumping all the hits on the 2+ save or Storm Shield holding individuals till they die or not as it seems to pan out. Nob Mobs are still difficult to take out as characters being to divert wounds.
2) Random charge should allow longer reach but in practice does not work and with casualties being removed from the front makes it very hard for Assault armies to work effectively.
I've shelved my Orks and Tyranids for the moment, turning to shooting armies like Necrons and Tau for future games at the club.

With the introduction of Flyers and the vehicle damage rule change, it has put a big spin on people's armies (and some new purchases).
Still not sure on Allies and Fortifications yet, as I've not really tried them but does mean we get to use more of our toys in normal games (along with those IA WH40K approval stamps) makes me happy.

So for me it's no going back 6th is here to stay - but must admit that my GW gaming is less than 50% as I also play FoW and Malifaux, and am looking at DZC and Infinity for future game systems of to play.
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Re: 40k, who stuck with it?

Postby killmaimburn » Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:35 am

DaBoss wrote:I've shelved my Orks .
I took 2x 30 boys (nob claw bosspole) and a big mek KFF ally last week, they owned.Night fight a good run move I was in his lines before he knew what was happening.(especially with diagonals setup and no dawn of war forcing me to wait)

Keep trying with orks :D
Baragash wrote:^This. Too much documentation required to play the game now..
There really isn't you know, they just made that first book look oppressively big and hard to find stuff(wholeheartedly agree that on first glance it APPEARS alot).. when you cut through it all there isn't that much to read.

(All following is based on 5th ed codexs)

During the birth of 5th ed Lord malek pointed out a whitedwarf article that made wound allocation a joke, on the left was a thing despising those dirty people who followed the rules of 4th ed (rather than the subversive “1inallin” group who were flavour of the year)and showing how these people abused allocation. Then on the right hand side of the page it showed how through spending a while with your list you could tactically avoid wounds through careful designation of dice piles.. (epic fail).

6th edition from most people I’ve spoken to who still play regularly (and also hinted at in interviews from the upcoming chaos codex) is rebuilding 4th ed better (5th ed is retconned..as I said in my massive post on how to learn it in 40minutes, the less of 5th you remember the better) with bits of 2nd for a feel of epicness.
The biggest abstraction layer is gone..now its rule sets are more intuitive to noobie, if I spend all my movement running around a target to shoot them that side gets shot.
I’ve provided a few scribblings of my favourite bits of wound allocation in 6th below.

Negatives
The game is slower, I know tourneys are saying they’re going to dump warlord traits and mysterious objectives and terrain density tests and woods and rivers and 2 rolls for who goes first+ terrain being separate and and and.. but basically 5th ed was a faster game. 6th ed is about everything exploding into movie moments left right and centre. I haven’t had one game under 2 hours but nor have I had one without a bit I wished I could ring someone up chat about like a girl.(OMG..)

The game is slower (you can’t just pushall your minis forwards with a stick with special stuff at the front)
The game is slower. (look out sirs double the dice in some heroic situations..although systems have popped up to minimise the lag)..When you start wound allocations in close combat you have to get used to slowly pouring the dice out..it flows, and you don't have to segment into little piles anymore.(good/bad)

Yeah I just have the one point but it’s a biggie, People have got used to a game they can throw down quickly.We’ve tried playing as quickly as we can and (us who could play in 40min and could fit 2or 3 games into an evening) still can’t fit a game into what we’re used to calling a tourney window, and if we’re struggling arrgh how can those people who used to struggle for time in 5th get a chance to play?
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Re: 40k, who stuck with it?

Postby Baragash » Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:04 am

BANE wrote:I see 6th ed wound allocation as a massive improvement over 5th, its not perfect but I can't think of another way of doing it that doesn't have its own set of problems.


Each to his own, I see no improvement because the units that could "have fun" in 5th still can but now there's more crap as well.

4th Edition had the best ones, which IMO they could have improved by abstracting a little more to remove the same shenanigans they've just reintroduced with 6th.

Bottom line, 40k is not a skirmish game, I don't want to play skirmish-level mechanics, nor do I particularly want to learn a new game at the moment.
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Re: 40k, who stuck with it?

Postby Angelwing » Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:27 am

Still playing nearly every week. The group has bought into 6th. I personally have rejected the big hardback book, and will wait for the standard boxset book.
It plays okay, but I'd like to see challenges and look out sir deleted from the book. Remove nearest slows things down a bit with micro managing model position (fine in necromunda, no good in a mass battle game). Undecided on random charge, warlord traits and mysterious objectives. Kill points changed to victory points but still the same unfair rubbish.
We haven't used allies, fortifications, monstrous creatures or fliers yet. My response to any fliers will be the same as previous editions: just ignore them and kill everything else.

Over all, lots of detail shoved back in that really doesn't need to be there, but still enjoying it overall.
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Re: 40k, who stuck with it?

Postby Baragash » Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:30 pm

If you have pre-measuring, you have to have random charging (or an equivalent mechanism) otherwise the movement IMO becomes too predictable, almost chess-like. That's my one real objection to KoW.
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Re: 40k, who stuck with it?

Postby Cain Tiberius » Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:52 pm

I don't get the opitunity to play much. But my gripe with GW has always been about cost, not rules. Yeah some charges are nice, others are a bag snot... But as long as my oponent and I have fun, i'll play which ever version is available.
Can't really justify the £££ on the 6th rule book. I do have the new starter on order. More money yes... But also has a lot of shiny new goodness too. And I'll have the pocket rules then.
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Re: 40k, who stuck with it?

Postby killmaimburn » Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:03 pm

Not that I'm only looking for my reason as the only valid downside or anything but.. moans about tournaments (here nova) not getting passed turn4 are starting to pop up now.
Tis just the beginning.
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