If an objective is placed on the 1st or 2nd floor of a ruin/building, which units can contest

i know bikers / beasts / cav cannot, but what about a unit of troops in a transport, wave serpents and jetbikes etc or even a monolith

Proximity to the objective is the key I guess. If you are within 3" in any (3D) direction, you are within range.

Unlikely scenario question....

IG Skimmer/Flyers: would that be measured from the base or the hull?

I'd measure from the hull myself (it's much bigger than the base isn't it?)

The rules for ruins on page 92 say that for unit coherency you measure from the head of a model on a lower level to the base of a model that is higher up.
I would play it the same way for objectives. So if the objective marker is on the 1st floor, then pretty much any unit can contest, and if the marker is on the 2nd (or higher) floor, then any unit that could move on the upper floors of the ruin could contest.

@ Matt: And much higher up...

From P71:

MEASURING DISTANCES
Unlike other vehicles, skimmers have transparent ‘flying
bases’ under their hull. As normal for vehicles, distances
are measured to and from the skimmer’s hull, with the
exceptions of the vehicle’s weapons, access points and
fire points, which all work as normal. The skimmer’s
base is effectively ignored, except when assaulting a
skimmer, in which case models may move into contact
with the vehicle’s hull, its base or both.

So a Skimmer on a tall stand next to a ruin would be better at contesting an objective on an upper floor than a non-Skimmer at ground level. Similarly, a skimmer on a very tall stand might not be able to contest an objective on ground level at all (even if it stops on top of it).

@ TW: that is a special exception that applies only to coherency and Engaged status - as such, it wouldnt apply to contesting objectives. However, with a 3" contesting zone and 3" floors, its still possible for a model to contest an objective by standing on the level above or below it.

@ OP: dont forget that if the objective is put on a "building" (not ruin), then any unit that embarks (into the building) will be within range to claim it (since you would measure from the outer walls of the building).

~ Tim

@LRTRK-Agreed, I was just using the coherency bit as an example (or justification). The 3" between floor is in the rules as well. So we both agree but for different reasons that any unit could contest an objective on the floor above or below it, provided the unit could move into that position. (eg, a beast couldnt contest an objective on the 2nd floor because it couldn't move onto the first floor).

yay, I was right for both! I just didn't provide rule quotes

I thought Beasts were only prevented from moving on the upper floors?

EDIT: yes - from p83:

MOVING WITHIN RUINS
Only certain troops are capable of clambering to the
upper levels of ruins. Accordingly, only infantry, jump
infantry, jetbikes, monstrous creatures and walkers may
move on the upper levels of a ruin – and only if the
model can physically be placed there. Other units may
only move on the ground level of the ruin.

Anyway, there is always the option of wrecking a vehicle next to the ruin, and then climbing on top of the wreck to get close enough to an obkjective to contest it.
(you could even wreck it inside the building: you would still be on the ground floor, but you could be higher up than models on the floors "above" you - LOL).

On the topic of 3" floors - this wont always be true, since ruins can be homemade etc, but yes, it is the "standard" (if there is one).

Cheers

~ Tim

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:On the topic of 3" floors - this wont always be true, since ruins can be homemade etc, but yes, it is the "standard" (if there is one).

Cheers

~ Tim

BRB page 83 under 'Infantry, monstrous creatures and walkers'; "Even though different building models can vary in this respect, we assume that every level of a ruin is 3" tall."

I red that to mean they assumed it when writing the following paragraph on moving up and down.

Surely a 3" Difficult Terrain roll wont take me up a 6" floor? (and a 5" roll wont let me move 12")

Even if it does, I see nothing that says we extend this imaginary space-folding to other aspects of the game (i.e. a model that is 12" from another is still 12" away, even if they are two 6" floors apart).

~ Tim

That rule continues by saying that a model rolling a '3' can either move 3" horizontally or simply go up or down a level.

If you modeled a ruin with 6" high floors, according to this rule, if I roll a '3', I can still go up a level.

Modeling this way (with much higher than 3" floors) opens up a number of problems. How do you measure coherency? How do you reslove ranges for weapons or psykers?

This is why the rule is clear that all ruins are assumed to have 3" between floors.

Taken from the IG FAQ 2009

Q. How do you treat the Valkyrie base for
gaming? Due to its height it seems that it is
impossible for a Valkyrie to contest an objective,
or for troops to disembark/embark normally.

A. Follow the rules in Measuring Distances in the
Skimmers section in the Warhammer 40,000
rulebook with the following exception: For the
purposes of contesting objectives and
embarking/disembarking from a Valkyrie or
Vendetta, measure to and from the model’s base.
For example, models wishing to embark within a
Valkyrie can do so if at the end of their
movement, all models within the unit are within
2" of the Valkyrie’s base.

haha... which means it might not be able to claim some objective high off the ground when other skimmer could!

I think most people (and the rules/faq) consider that objectives are at ground level. Pragmatism should win over pure RaW in such cases where this is not the case.

Cheers King, that's what I was getting at with my earlier question