Played against demons the other day. Kept all my forces in reserve and let him go 'first'. That game wasn't fun for him at all.

Are Demons a viable army now given Drop Pods, Eldar Autarchs & the other units that mess with reserve rolls?

when i played KMB's 1500 pts Daemon army at WHW (using Kate's Eldar), i used a similar tactic, and managed to pull off a Draw (i was expecting to lose badly).

it was DoW, and i deployed just 1 (big) Guardian squad and a Farseer (to give me a presence in the centre of the board. everything else walked on in my first turn (after half his army had arrived), except maybe 1 or 2 units (Jetbikes IIRC) who came on via normal Reserves.

this meant i was able to bring my units on exactly where i needed them (inside weapons range and outside charge range, unless i was going to charge of course).

that said, i think this sort of thing (as well as the risks of DS etc) has been factored into the cost of Daemon units (5th ed was close to finished when they wrote the codex, Autarchs were already out, and Drop Pods were surely on the drawing board, considering the timescales involved with new plastic kits).

im looking forward to trying out my own Daemon army, despite the drawbacks.

~ Tim

There are some nutters out there who consider demons to be high tiered..I can only say tepid things about those folks
Its made folks take dreadnoughts again ,just because you can neuter whole armies with one bloke (and look like your shooting yourself in the foot doing it)
But a DSing generally low T army with that much unreliability isn't where the future lies (mostly because folks are ready to pump out the 150 shots to take down the piecemeal arrivals given a world where orks+guard are around as much as smurfs)

I've used the list 10-12 ish times, and its only been a 'fun' game twice (as in neither player was exceptionally F7*%^$ed off)
Its not just about reserves making them billy no mates on a board, its trying to grab hold of any vehicle that can move and shoot (without just spamming BOC/grinders on everything) skimmer lists really mess with it, landraiders really mess with it yada yada. (then I descend into..khorne demon princes being not very good at combat and need pills)
Have you played any of those card games where over a period of hours you win counters.. by being smart, playing hard etc and then those counters at the end of the game allow you to draw X number of cards from a deck (you draw a 5,7,8,8,4, whilst your opponent draws basic +Y (3,3,9)..whoever draws the single highest scoring card has won the game(so the loser won). Thats demons. Anti tactic wildcards.
Novelty value in friendly games.(But I would give up the game if they were my only army, they can lead to some shockers)

Where would you like this thread to go.. would you like lists of the good bits of the dex/template lists that can work better than others? Or tactics that exploit its many failings

If someone pulls this on a daemon player, the deamons should consider arriving in their "normal" deploment zone rather than spread out across the board or attempting to swamp the enemy deployment zone. That way their first turn becomes more like a normal deployment and while they effectively still lose a turn, they will be more likely to survive for longer.

They may survive, but the list is actually relatively slow (khorne can't move very fast apart from hounds, nurgle is V slow, Only tzeentch elites/FA and slannesh, DPs with movement cost soo much-no transports) relying on Deepstrike to make up their speed.
It allows the opposing player to control too much of the board.. leaving you running into a gun line for longer with them having more manoeuvrability..
I will always try and deploy in a noose formation and tighten it ..even if it has to incorporate an entire board edge

The critical thing here is that the daemon player doesn't have to decide how to split his army until the beginning of their first turn. I'd choose all my tarpit units like horrors and plaguebearers to come down first, then my combat troops can come in as support.

My daemons have always worked best en-mass. If there are large open spaces I can drop 2-3 units into in support of each other then it can be very hard to shift them.

Although it goes against the perceived wisdom that daemons want to go second, against fast or drop-pod forces I'd fear my opponents going first much more.

Having 3 fast vehicles transports or drop-pods spread troops into all the main open spaces on the board before I get a chance to ring anything down can leave it very hard to deep strike in without major risks of accidents or dangerous terrain tests.
Part of the reason daemons are so expensive is that risk of losing them as they drop, so giving them an open board to work with plays into their hands.

The one thing that will make me scream is one of the new advisors in the guard army. Makes you -1 on your reserve rolls.....

I dunno where I wanted this to go.

On the one hand, the unit that 'my' main army fears most in the whole game is the flamers. But then wraithguards are odd that way. (The flaming LR is probably next, but that can't just pop up next to you without you seeing it coming.)

Otoh, just keeping my forces in reserve kinda nurfs deep striking flamers, so I have a TERRIBLE hard time playing fair by putting stuff on the table in turn 1 and hoping his doods scatter off to mishap land. (Usually a forlorn hope.)

I guess I'm just scratching my head over an army this nasty and how one little trick is able to shift it from top to bottom of the whupass pecking order.

Played the Demon player yesterday. He kept all his army in 'reserve' rather than the normal demon (sorta reserve) deployment.

Now I'm afraid of the army again.

He can't do that.

At the beginning of your first turn, divide the army into two groups that must include, as much as possible, the same number of units.

The units in the group that has been chosen to make the daemonic assault arrive on your first turn, using the deep strike rules

Half the army will be coming down turn one. There no choice beyond which half you want to try and get.

The rule book says you can always put any units in reserve, doesn't it?

codex specific over rule book.
(especially when 'MUST' is used) Overwise none of the books make sense (e.g. you buy moondrakken that allows you to run/fleet on a bike, but the rules say you can't do this.. specific over genera;.. codex over general book)