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First game with daemons (Khorne only)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:54 pm
by KInG
Well, at first glance it would appear that my khorne army have been badly nerfed. The Bloodletters, although six points cheaper, are -1 toughness and -1 attack with leadership seven instability checks.

Soul grinders end up being more expensive for the same load out, but the flamer is now torrent and their battle cannon is now Ordinance. Give this guy mark of nurgle and he gets shrouded for 15 points. Not really fluffy in a khorne list.

Bloodcrushers are now -1 toughness +1 wound and cavalry. They also have leadership seven with instability checks.

The whole army has lost fearless and eternal warrior. The warp storm roll at the start of each shooting phase also tends to damage your own army as much as the enemy.

I swore I would not buy one of the gay looking chariots but as this gives your herald an area effect for rage or hatred, I reluctantly purchased one. I am now looking at swapping the front end of the chariot for 2 bloodcrushers instead of the Bloodletters on the platform and the wheels.

Also to skull cannon could be a good way to give your units frag grenades, so may also have to appear in the list. :(

Re: First game with daemons (Khorne only)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:01 pm
by KInG
I forgot to mention the bloodthirster. Same points but -1 strength and plus one wound. The big change is his invulnerable save is now only 5+

Flesh hounds got a boost though, they now have 2 wounds and are scouts. Karnak is an IC and also scout. So can make any unit scout through him.

The game went badly coz it was 2v2 and I lead the charge with some of si's daemonettes in support while nurgle sat defending the base objectives. :(

The DE and orcs shot me to bits so not a good test of my list, but I learnt of few things. Like I need to buy another model. Lol

Re: First game with daemons (Khorne only)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:48 pm
by BANE
That is not a good lesson to learn!

Re: First game with daemons (Khorne only)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:57 pm
by KInG
Bloodcrushers also lost 3+ armour save.

That's a lot to loose and not alot to gain I think....

Same 45pts. -1 T and +1 Wound and only a +5 sv. Now cavalry.
Along with not eternal warrior anymore means these can now be insti killed by MLaunchers.

Re: First game with daemons (Khorne only)

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:33 pm
by killmaimburn
KInG wrote:The game went badly coz it was 2v2 and I lead the charge with some of si's daemonettes in support while nurgle sat defending the base objectives. :(

The DE and orcs shot me to bits so not a good test of my list, but I learnt of few things. Like I need to buy another model. Lol
For a first attempt at batrep..well its brief..keep trying .
KInG wrote: with leadership seven instability checks.[...] They also have leadership seven with instability checks.
Which you only take when you lose close combat.. super fearless in all other situations. So Don't lose close combat badly and then roll 2 out of 36 chance bad thing..7s, meh dice average..buff that thing.
KInG wrote:The warp storm roll at the start of each shooting phase also tends to damage your own army as much as the enemy.
Going mono means the table isn't odds on against you. 3 out of 11 are bad 5/11are dependant on list build but basically 1 is bad 1 is nothing, whilst 4 of them are bad for your opponent, 3 are def god for you. 7 against opponent 4 against you If you mono build..Accept it, Kelly wants fluffy.
KInG wrote:Bloodcrushers also lost 3+ armour save.

That's a lot to loose and not alot to gain I think....

Same 45pts. -1 T and +1 Wound and only a +5 sv. Now cavalry.
Along with not eternal warrior anymore means these can now be insti killed by MLaunchers.

Hands up anyone who didn't think it was obvious blood crushers (or lets take 30 of them and win 2008) or flamers (lets take 30 of these and win 2012) or kairos or epi.. weren't going to be nerfed/readdressed to be less obvious win.

Anyway.. give your bloodthirster an exalted reward..accept a roll of a 0 and then take the grimoire of true names, then cast it on the blood crushers for a 3++ invulnerable save.

I'm still reading it, its a really hard codex to understand, but it has its strengths.

Taking heralds attached to squad makes up, or supplements alot of unit powers to be better.

KING- This is the most complex codex I've seen in 6 years+, the synergies above are just me scratching the surface.. its going to be a while before we know what actually did get better and worse (when taking compleiementary/buff units).

Re: First game with daemons (Khorne only)

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:31 pm
by lostandthedamned
Yep played my first daemon game last night.
Really enjoyed it though as with all 6th edition codexes, throw away your old lists, rework it from ground up as if you where buying the army new.

1. Most of the army folds to massed shooting unless your units can soak it Big blocks work.
2. The army is fast enough to start all on the board. Slannesh & Khorne units will be in charge range turn 2 latest (Banner of Blood will help this). Just don't expect them to be quite as effective when they get there.
3. Horrors can put out even more Dakka than before. 20 joined by a L3 Herald with Exhalted Locus, can put out 7D6 S6 Ap4 shots per turn, rerolling to hit. (Presciance + total 5 warp charge of Flickering Fire) Not bad for 300 pts.
4. Mounted Khorne/Slannesh Heralds with their elite/special units may be a thing. Leaves troop units un-upgraded, but Plaguebearers/horrors could just sit around and hide.
5. Big units of Plaguebearers will kill anything. Herald with medium Locus to make them hard to kill.
6. Most of the god specific weapons are a bit naff because of the stats of the things holding them.
The Eternal blade is almost redundant for greater daemons - a good weapon for a Prince though.
The King is the Greater Etherblade. +1s ap2 mastercrafted. great for 20pts available to everyone from unit champion upwards.
7. The Greater Rewards table seems the best value. Every upgrade is useful.
Lesser Gifts are very meh, though i'd take etherblade/axe of khorne for unit champions if I wanted to save 10pts.
Exhalted rewards are good but you seem to have to jump through hoops to get the benefit. (not complaining if I get 2 Bloodthirsters for the price of 1.)
The other 3 Artifacts. Doomstone - pointless - i'll just kill you if we're in combat, not wait for you to fail 2-3 leadership tests. Would have worked out ok if Nobs & Wolfguard where still all characters.
Grimoire of true names - will this ever go right for you when you want it to. Will appear in every Kairos list to give him a 2+inv (he just rerolls the dice)
Portalglpyh - Great, if it was more survivable, or didn't scatter more than anything else in the game or didn't not work half the time. An all in fast army may find use for it to benchsit, but who isn't going to drop the 1 krak missile needed to stop a new unit ever other turn arriving (on average).

Seems that I'll stick to the basic Units. You have to be willing to alter your gameplan based on what kit you get. Not for someone who likes routine armies.
Now to work out how much, and what, to put in reserve.

Re: First game with daemons (Khorne only)

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:07 am
by KInG
Spotted grimore of true names just last night during my reread. That one will be getting field tested.

I'm also drawn to skarband because ultimately I will be more CC than thee.

But can someone tell me why I would take skull taker over a normal herald with a khorne axe?.. This option is 35pts cheaper.

Another option, take 3 heralds on juggs. Put with three crushers. Now all six are T5. ;)

Re: First game with daemons (Khorne only)

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:35 am
by killmaimburn
KInG wrote:But can someone tell me why I would take skull taker over a normal herald with a khorne axe?.. This option is 35pts cheaper.
This is the kind of hysterical Oeenoeess someone gets when they are looking for flaws rather than ways to win..
Like for like 35 points is without the axe of khorne (as your other guy would have to buy the locus to be as close to as possible)on a like for like you also get a 3+ regular armour save, eternal warrior(those 2 big gripes you have).+2WS (/meaning nearly everyone in the game needs 5s to hit you, +2 BS (in charge of a emplacement weapon or something (thats not twionlinked thats something like a 2+ to hit ) with a reroll to hit on a 2+ again)+3 Int +1 Attack
+ soul blaze and decapitating blow in CC..
For 35 points like for like.. I remember when upgrading one stat cost 15 points..

Now if you add axe (so you can hurt termies) making the difference ap2 (all the above but now 25 pts difference), and that both builds now have soulblaze(or is it the counts as ID I forget)..Meh.. Its as it ever was from start of 5th,an off the shelf named character is now dirt cheap if you want to specialise to equip it in a similar fashion it will cost more.Skulltaker will suck against termie heavy armys but will slap face of everyone else.

Re: First game with daemons (Khorne only)

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:13 pm
by KInG
Ok Toby point taken. Thx. ;)