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g.knights over powered?

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g.knights over powered?

Postby 765024730486 » Sun May 01, 2011 10:09 pm

Since i got my 600pt army i have used it about 5 times and every one i vs says grey knights are over powered even if i lost but i dont see how can anyone explain? i mean fair enough the get +1 strength (hammerhand) and force weapons but thats all i can think of.
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Re: g.knights over powered?

Postby Ogregut » Sun May 01, 2011 11:34 pm

Its a common cry to shout cheese and overpowered when a new codex comes out as it very easy to just see the strengths and not the weaknesses.

Yes grey knights are powerful and can give most armies a beating as they have lots of shiny toys but they are very expensive and they die just like any other marine. Give it a little more time and people will work out how to kill them.
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Re: g.knights over powered?

Postby KInG » Mon May 02, 2011 12:27 am

When compared the single GK trooper to a standard Space Marine you get a psyker with a force weapon and a storm bolter for something like +4 points. Alot for 4 PTs. But when u consider that it only has a 3+ save the same as any other SM then he's going to die just as quickly and just the same way.

They do get some nice toys. But there's lots those basic troopers don't get also. Access to melta weapons, shooty or grenades, being the biggest. No long range AT like missile launcher or lascannon.

So though they seem great at first, they can't do some things that normal SM take for granted.
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Re: g.knights over powered?

Postby mattjgilbert » Mon May 02, 2011 7:52 am

Shoot them enough times and they'll die just like anything else. With small squads they are vulnerable to massed concentrated fire-power.
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Re: g.knights over powered?

Postby killmaimburn » Mon May 02, 2011 10:17 am

Ogregut wrote: Give it a little more time and people will work out how to kill them.

I'll second Ogregut pretty much in his entire post.
My 0.02 of your chosen currency.
The codex is good, the codex is strong, the codex is versatile. It can bring some incredible range and resilience to the table very easily, and it can bring some awesome base camping. It has some very good combos if they aren't broken up by a savvy opponent.
But they lack reliable disposable fast attack melta.(thank god)they can win close combats but only through bolstered units with extra support..generally dedicating a chunk more points than the opponent does. A lot of their mech solutions rely on av12.Paladins are killed fairly easily for their points And super breadknifes were (thankfully) kicked down a notch before release.

In terms of 'special rules win games' quick assessment.. yes they have even more special rules than anyone else.ANd it is very hard, for me and the swarming dribbling masses to have an army that everytime we read out a rule one list has an exception to everything.
In terms of codex creep yes its up there with the current new wave imperial creep of better than other stuff.
But its not guard, its about on par with wolves and angels I reckon.

I find it funky that so far from games I've played in, and watched. Its nemisi still appear to be MEQ fast swarms. (av12s drop like flies, deathstars can get smacked down by combined libby fortresses if the charge goes wrong etc)..
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Re: g.knights over powered?

Postby 765024730486 » Sat May 14, 2011 10:41 pm

well ive beaten 30 boyz 1 warboss with them in combat 1 5man squad with maleus inquisitor (daemon blade/incinerator/power armour)
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Re: g.knights over powered?

Postby KInG » Sun May 15, 2011 3:08 pm

how... did u charge?

KMB wtf is: "deathstars can get smacked down by combined libby fortresses if the charge goes wrong"? lol

so far all I seem to do is base camp. I think these guys have lots of chinks in their armour. Not easy to get a balaned list going. I'm starting to depend on psycannons to hopefully bring armour down with a rending roll for anthing AV13+.

For that reason I added a warband recently. 2 x Jakero; 3 x MM servitors; 2 x Crusaders ; 2 x Deathcult Assassins; 3 x Warriors (wounds) + Cortez to protect them, boost them, make them scoring and sit on my objective. This gives me some decent Melta action as they approach my 'base camp'.

Rest of list in brief (1750pt)

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1 x 5 termies
2 x 8 Purifiers in rhinos with 2 x psycannons friring top hatch style till required to move forward.
2 x riflemen dreadies
1 x normal dread, ass can and n/doomfist with psybolts (making SBolter S5 also ;) keep forgetting).
1 x vindicare assassin

Vindicare assassin - prolly the best anti tank in the game: S3 + 4D6 and AP1
add to this his ability to pick out models from a unit with special ammo and he's awsome, I recommend giving him a try.

Haven't tried the Calledus yet, which was an auto pick for my GKs previously, as she seems a little less potent now. What did she loose? Wasn't the ctan sword better before?
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Re: g.knights over powered?

Postby Spack » Sun May 15, 2011 7:26 pm

Moving this to 40k discussion as it has nothing to do with developing new rules, which is what the Rules Development forum is for. The clue is in the forum name. :roll:
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Re: g.knights over powered?

Postby Ljundhammer » Mon May 16, 2011 8:26 am

KInG wrote:so far all I seem to do is base camp. I think these guys have lots of chinks in their armour. Not easy to get a balaned list going. I'm starting to depend on psycannons to hopefully bring armour down with a rending roll for anthing AV13+.


I've used them a couple of times & theory hammered it quite hard. GKs are just dull.
1) Build army list with as many psycannons as possible
2) Get to the middle
3) stand there, hope for rending
4) ???
5) Profit

For that reason I'm out, I thought that the Breadknives would stop me playing, but it turns out that they're pretty much the only interesting unit in the book, even the henchmen are dull (being expensive, bad, guardsmen).

Oh god, I forgot the riflemen! Just add a load of those too. In every. Single. Army.

Oh well, you can stay in the box until 7th ed you saucy little GKs, you.

KInG wrote:Haven't tried the Calledus yet, which was an auto pick for my GKs previously, as she seems a little less potent now. What did she loose? Wasn't the ctan sword better before?


Callidus can no longer assault from DS which is major. But most importantly she lost "A word in your ear", which was better than having the assassin (which was generally pretty poor on the table due to low wounds, low attacks & a flimsy save, and a hundred other 3rd-4th-5th ed rule changes). I paid 120 points for that rule alone, having the assassin that might do something as well was a bonus.
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Re: g.knights over powered?

Postby killmaimburn » Mon May 16, 2011 10:41 am

KInG wrote:KMB wtf is: "deathstars can get smacked down by combined libby fortresses if the charge goes wrong"? lol?

I'll expand
First off this is an interesting article I found whilst trying to find a away to express my thoughts.. it might be useful for you and LH..note here GK are not the mobile, but more the mass lacking mass :roll: Cryptic way of saying what LH did about shuffling fowards and then sitting in the middle )
I'm talking about what can NOT smack down grey knights.
Here I'm talking about V low model count many eggs in basket things (nob bikers, Smurf command bikes seer council etc)
So here, those units may get at a unit, they may have to get through difficult and dangerous terrain spell, (all those extra points for FNP don't help) crowe list=you may hit a wall of flame before attacks are started (which ok is more deadly for hordes, but for high T elite super troops who rely on T for safety its just as deterring), higher initiative and moderate strength will get through relative /\T first.)
So these units don't want to get into you..so what do they do?ork super CCs using bike shooty not as good as grey knights, COmmand squads.. a couple of melta means your going to take a charge back.. Eldar hovering around at the back withering fire should work since the grey knights will have to lose a few 3+s now and again but those psycannons will whittle them down.

The more points into fewer models you throw at a well positioned+synergised grey knight army the worse day an opponent will have.

Whereas my bloodhammeras mobile AND mass, takes down grey knights like the canteen has puddi.
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Re: g.knights over powered?

Postby Ljundhammer » Mon May 16, 2011 10:47 am

Um, I don't think that cleared nything up KMB :lol:
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Re: g.knights over powered?

Postby killmaimburn » Mon May 16, 2011 11:06 am

A (deathstar) unit that thinks it is big and tough that multi charges doubled up grey knights in an attempt to tie up nearly its points..will fail.
I can't think of many other ways of putting it. :(
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Re: g.knights over powered?

Postby lostandthedamned » Mon May 16, 2011 11:50 am

Interesting results from the Tempus Fugatives campaign weekend.
Grey Knights kept getting their backsides handed to them.
A couple of players where using Crowe + Purifyers and had real problems. It doesn't really matter in 40k how good your unit is, beyond a certain point extra abilites & upgrades don't make you any better. 3 good units will always outplay 2 excellent ones. ( In my case my 6 good units where better than his 2 uber ones).

I think GK players need to look at having as many Marines as possible with only 1 or 2 upgrades per squad and less of 10 guys all with special stuff.

PS
the metagame seems to have shifted in that people aren't taking hordes of melta's anymore. It seems that the overspecialisation in melta squads seen in the last 2years has finally scared off most of the land raiders. There where a lot more lascannons and autocannons (especially hydra's) around as killing flying armour 10- 12 at range(Valk, Stormraven, Raider/Ravager, Falcon/Serpent) is now much more important than opening up armour 13/14 bunker vehicles.
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Re: g.knights over powered?

Postby killmaimburn » Mon May 16, 2011 12:10 pm

Thats been a trend since chimera spam became resurgent.
LH now alternates his deathwing 2 landraiders (requiring fast melta), and his guard 12 ish av12 (requiring riflemen and autocannon las preds etc).. means I'll always loose against one.
Actually I'd thought the current (last 6 months) trend post guard and DA faq was deathwing were back in a big way since the melta had to be taken down a peg.
The big loosers for all this are people who rely on 1 or 2 storm raven or dark eldar who really can't compete when the basic mindset of stage 1 list building is can they take out 3 times as many av12 as you currently have.
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