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Help with my Army futures

Discussion of anything 40K related

Help with my Army futures

Postby jlong05 » Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:54 pm

Well let me start by saying that I am a little let down by the apparent lack of a solid re-order Ork army box. I was very much planning to get that for my Christmas present this year. Instead I have the option of a codex-less Spearhead.

So here is my question; Given my existing amount of Ork models:

Ghaz
2 Warbosses
Weirdboy conversion(from a fantasy mini)
Mega-armored Nob
3 Nobs
15 Stikkbommas(kommandos in the new dex)
40 Slugga/choppa boyz
30 Shoota boyz
8 Stormboyz
4 Burnaboyz
8 Grots
1 Warbiker
3 trukks
2 Buggys
2 KillaKans(Converted 2nd ed Dreads)
1 Kustom Dread(created from IG walker)
1 Battlewagon

Should I go ahead and buy the Spearhead, or wait on the spearhead and instead get the pre-order Chaos Army box? I can then plan to get a couple filler units after the Jan release for the Orks(mainly bikers, lootas, and possibly burnas.)

I have never played Chaos, but it appears they have the gambit of options, from the CSM stuff to Deamons, to IG units.

What do you all think I should do? Is the Chaos Box a good value and a viable army at its initial size?

Please help, and Thanks in advance for any feedback you all provide.
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Postby Culven » Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:25 am

I think that if you like Orks, you should stick with them. They seem like they will be a fun army to play under their new rules. One of my mates played a game last weekend with the new rules and he was quite happy with their new incarnation.

Personally, I think it is terrible when someone feels that they need to change armies in order to have a competative force.
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Postby jlong05 » Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:42 am

Culven wrote:I think that if you like Orks, you should stick with them. They seem like they will be a fun army to play under their new rules. One of my mates played a game last weekend with the new rules and he was quite happy with their new incarnation.

Personally, I think it is terrible when someone feels that they need to change armies in order to have a competative force.
Sorry, you may have mis understood my point. I have a pretty large force already, and most likely it 'is' competitive as I have it now(maybe a few minor changes), I was simply asking if the Spearhead seemed the way to go. It gives me:
Mek
Weirdboy
10 Boyz
5 Lootas/Burnas (rumor has it there are weapons for both so I could convert some of my extra boys to get both??)
5 Tankbustas w/ 2 Bomb squigs(Not sure of hte usefullness of this unit)
3 bikes
1 trukk (May be able to convert this to 2 buggys instead, or maybe a seconds Battlewagon.)

This is compared to the Chaos army which is:
1 Chaos Terminator Lord
5 Chaos Terminators
15 Chaos Space Marines
8 Khorne Berzerkers
5 Possessed Chaos Space Marines
2 Chaos Spawn
1 Chaos Defiler

I am just trying to figure out if the Orks are a better idea for me to do, or if I may be better served to expand my army options with the Chaos force given my large Ork force I already have. Not sure.

I am in no way saying I am upset with the Orks and want to change to be competitive, I am more saying, am I already ok Orkwise and should go ahead and go with a new army. I also say an Eldar pre-order army that may be good as well.
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Postby killmaimburn » Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:07 pm

jlong05 wrote:This is compared to the Chaos army which is:
1 Chaos Terminator Lord NICE, and lots of interesting bits to stick everywhere else
5 Chaos TerminatorsNice, just darned nice
15 Chaos Space Marines To few to be of a great help, I'd just buy a few imperials off ebay and customise them for 1/10th the price
8 Khorne Berzerkers Isn't the world drowning in them, I've got 80 and apart from apocolypse I'm never going to use more than 16 again (during this codex), the market is flooded with the multi pose ones at the moment
5 Possessed Chaos Space Marines pretty, but won't make it into a shrewd game, might be good for proxying in demonworld
2 Chaos SpawnMost people buy the box and then just sell these fellas on, I use zoats if I really feel the need to use spawn
1 Chaos Defiler Still undecided, If you want to brassscorpian or pick one up before they charge more than £50 for them a fair buy

If your a staffer and your getting chaos stuff for free, then thats fine and dandy, but I don't see much point buying that boxset at the moment.
Is your current ork horde ready and waiting with the old switcheroo (whatever was bad will now be good etc) A friend of mine is digging out his prized old squig launchers ready :D
Last edited by killmaimburn on Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby jlong05 » Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:00 pm

KMB:

OK, so you are saying I am better off continuing to expand my Orks with the Spearhead then? It sounds that although there is a bunch of stuff in the Chaos Army, I may be better served to try to get them from ebay and other sources then.
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Postby killmaimburn » Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:40 pm

Pretty much.Chaos are going through a boom period (as marksman cypher once described over at GW) that doesn't mean that the pretty new models mesh with which units are good.And the way they've pushed the fluff closer to warband chaos (turned from the emperor yesterday) means you can buy the masses of those imperial GW models that are much cheaper 2nd hand, the only thing I'd be intrigued by is their Icons, but I just use banners from hordes of chaos p108, so they are hot swapable.( a lot of other folks are finding them the fun modelling bit, so why buy the generic ones?)
I don't know anything really about orcs, I just know chaos in and out (and tend to be a bit moody about it. :oops: )
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Postby jlong05 » Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:02 pm

Thats cool, I was also thinking that going into Chaos woudl open up the IG stuff for the Traitor Guard so I 'am' interested in that also. Mainly to start though I am looking to get the best bang for my buck so if the Army deal isnt that good(just a pretty box) then I will probably hold off. I was thinking initially that the army may at least give me a playable army that I can then add the Guard into. Just my thoughts on the questions. :)

Thanks for the advice! It's very much appreciated.
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Postby jlong05 » Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:53 am

Ok, since the Chaos Army is a waste based on KMBs assessment, what about the Eldar Army box? The army box comes with:

1 Wraithlord
1 Falcon Grav Tank
10 Dire Avengers (including Exarch)
4 Eldar Jetbikes
1 Vyper
20 Guardians
2 Grav Platforms

Honestly I like the 'look' of the Eldar army, although I do not currently own the Codex(One of the few I haven't bought yet). I like the ranger/pathfinder units the Eldar can field and have thought of getting a pack simply to create a kill team. How does this army stack up points wise and is it really playable? Is it worth it, or are the included units similar to the Chaos box where you would never play them?

Comments welcome, thanks in advance.

EDIT: I also found this boxed set still available:

1 Autarch
1 Wraithlord
1 Falcon Grav Tank
10 Dire Avengers (including Exarch)
6 Fire Dragons (including Exarch)
6 Howling Banshees (including Exarch)
1 Vyper
10 Guardians
1 Grav Platform
new Eldar Codex

Looks like this gains me the Codex, Autarch, Fire Dragons and Howling Banshees, but I lose the 4 Jetbikes, 10 Guardians and a Grav platform.

Which is the better box?
Last edited by jlong05 on Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:07 am

jlong05 wrote:1 Autarch = 120
1 Wraithlord = 150
1 Falcon Grav Tank = 180
10 Dire Avengers (including Exarch) = 150
6 Fire Dragons (including Exarch) = 120
6 Howling Banshees (including Exarch) = 120
1 Vyper = 60
10 Guardians + 1 Grav Platform = 100
new Eldar Codex
TOTAL = 1000 pts
Looks like this gains me the Codex, Autarch, Fire Dragons and Howling Banshees, but I lose the 4 Jetbikes, 10 Guardians and a Grav platform.

Which is the better box?

the second one, IMO. for a start, it comes with an HQ (of course, you could always convert one from the other box, from a Guardian or Jetbike etc but thats not the point) so its a legal army. the number of Guardians is right too (dont want too many). ive also had bad experiences with small Guardian Jetbike squads - if i was going to field them in an army of this size, i would want more than 4 before i would consider it.

ive added approximate points values to what you listed above, and it comes to 1000 pts (obviously there is wiggle room as the weapon costs vary a fair bit - you might even be able to fit in a Ranger squad if you wanted to). seems quite balanced too - its got:
- fast stuff
- slow stuff
- cheap fodder
- elite stuff
- combat stuff
- shooty stuff
- anti tank
- anti hoard
- anti MEQ
- good Ld

if i was going to restart Eldar i would certainly consider buying this box myself. it would also be a good foundation to add to up to 1500 pts - i would add something like: Harelquins/Scorpions; Rangers & Dire Avengers; cheap Farseer; Vibrocannon etc.

hope that helps :)

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Postby killmaimburn » Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:16 am

The eldar codex is very very juicy (just don't try to read it a-z mine has pencil all over it to cross reference all the bits they hid),I don't play them but my main pain in bum is one of the pointy ears and they are deadly (most power gamers will say traited smurfs and eldar truly rule the roost). they work well as a mech force, or an assualty force or as a massed fire force, or slow advancing indestructable doom wraith army or any combination of that, they have very few weak units (and even those do more than possessed 8) ).
The wraithlord is now less common (it got a slight points bump that made other things look more inviting) its still darned tough and I wouldn't say nerfed.
Folks I know just take 6 bikes as their troop choice.(with maybe some ranger or pathfinders for when its more than 1500).
That said since there isn't that much bad stuff in there, having a mixer box sounds like a good way to start.
Make sure you can make the weapons interchangable, because for example its a good change for 3 warwalkers (which you might buy next) to either pump out 18 24" str6 shots (cost the same as a dreadnought for the whole unit) or 24x36" str6 shots (costs a fair whack but will clear tables) and early players from old school might get tripped up in some of the points bumps that happened, new eldar swapped around a bit to have less anti tank t8 on the table and more 10,000 str 6 shots from expendable folks. :twisted:
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Postby jlong05 » Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:16 pm

Hmmm.. interesting assessment. I agree that the second does appear to be better rounded. I also noticed that the second box doesn't provide as good of a savings though. I think it was around $20 US while the first is closer to $100 US.

Oh the decisions.. grumble.
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Postby jlong05 » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:08 pm

OK, Here is my latest idea. Anyone with any experience with Eldar, I would really appreciate feedback so I know if I should order my boxes or not.

HQ
Autarch (Jetbike and wargear)

TPS
6x Guardian Jetbikes (2 with Cannons)
7x Guardian Jetbikes (2 with Cannons)
10x Guardians (Hvy Platform)
10x Guardians (Hvy Platform)
10x Dire Avengers(Exarch)

FA
3x Vypers (Unsure of weapons)

HS
Wraithlord (Unsure of weapons/options)
Falcon Grav Tank (Unsure of weapons)

Basically I would be buying 2 box sets for this creation. The newly available Megaforce and the Limited release Windriderhost.

My question is if this would be a goo force or not. I priced it out points wise and I am in the 1000+ to 1250 range. I can easily add Elites and Pathfinders later on, but will this work, or would I be losing my games befor they even really start? Basically my idea here is a solid fire base witha fast based support and HQ.
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Postby Firecrest_inc » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:23 pm

I'd drop the falcon, no squad small enough to transport, which means it will not fulfilling everything it does and in a 1000pts everything needs to be optimised for its fullest effect in my opinion. I'm not an eldar player so I can't suggest what could replace it, though I am taking harlequins in my IG apoc army now. :lol:
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Postby jlong05 » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:48 pm

Firecrest_inc wrote:I'd drop the falcon, no squad small enough to transport, which means it will not fulfilling everything it does and in a 1000pts everything needs to be optimised for its fullest effect in my opinion. I'm not an eldar player so I can't suggest what could replace it, though I am taking harlequins in my IG apoc army now. :lol:

Good point, I could always convert it to a Wave Serpent and use it to ferry around the Avengers.
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Postby DoctorTom » Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:24 am

Changing to a Wave Serpent would be good for the Dire Avengers.

I'm underwhelmed by the Guardians since the change I used to keep a small unit or two in my list, but always preferred Rangers/Pathfinders. With the codex change it feels like the cost/benefit tipped too much away for me, especially now that cheap jetbikes are available as troop choices. I like throwing in one of those, for annoyance value and for those timee you need to lead those 'must charge the closest enemy unit' types around by the nose. I like the jetbike units you have there. Have you considered a unit of Pathfinders instead of one of the guardian units, though? It'll give you something shooting that can pin units, or maybe get AP1 shots out.

You might want one guardian unit though, with a Warlock/Spirit Seer, if you're taking the Wraithlord. I don't care for them as much now either, but that's probably because there's so many good choices now they're not a 'must have'. You could always cut out a guardian unit and maybe the wraithlord, and throw in a full unit of Warwalkers (either all scatter lasers or all missile launchers, depending on what you face), then throw in a Farseer with Guide (or throw in Eldrad, if you want him to be able to live through a Perils of the Warp).
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