My bikes have gone to the loft as have my nids.. I'm trying to resist BA Spamulike 24/7.
I don't want to use a better codex for them (although my BA are zerkers, led by leman russ,DA head libby Ezekiel mini, draft tycho, (mask and bolter)and Marneus_Calga..the super counts as leetss!!, makes mephy crap himself)

I want to go back to chaos.. but they are just so much butthurt, lash, oblits (who are now looking expensive by todays choices) PMs, Beserkers rhino rushing or landraider hopping.. these things I does not Want..
I made a list with ahriman a landraider and a shed load of GOC, (if life hands you lemons make 50 spawn a turn per silly people RAW) but still..meh

So I have to ask.. where are the best homebrew fixes.. any really good bandages to cellotape up or caulk my butthurt?
http://www.dicelikethunder.com/files/Fluid40k.pdf - , standardises certain silly bits, e.g. dozer blade) sets a standard of allies, allowing under certain restrictions demons and chaos warbands to work together.
Did anyone ever create an awesome staple to fix the lost and the damned? (I know there were a good 30 attempts I got lost on which ones made sense though.)
Anything....anywhere?

killmaimburn wrote:Did anyone ever create an awesome staple to fix the lost and the damned? (I know there were a good 30 attempts I got lost on which ones made sense though.)
Anything....anywhere?

Shall we have a go?

Take one or more of the Vraks lists and adjust for the new IG Codex and you're pretty much there.

Aspiring Champs = allow Exalted from Vraks at 2 per HQ slot
DP = CSM or DoC
GD = CSM or DoC
Big Mutants = Ogryn Zerks, Plague Ogryns or IG Ogryns (depending on guns)
Mutants = Vraks
Traitors = Vraks/IG
Chaos Hounds = Fenrisian Wolves
Spawn =

ruffian4 wrote:Shall we have a go?

Well I was just thinking of giving spawn a 5+ save for 5points..
But yeah alrighty.
Where baragash leads we shall follow - Should we include any of his alterations to legions/SC ressurections inside it..or is that an extra tier of homecraft that gets confusing?

I like the vraks stuff, beastmen and other chunks, but really the mutants as were (LATD).. are really quite nice.. and in a post "how cheap are those boyz!!!"time are fairly tame really.. some bits of the LATD doc are nicer for the more corrupted, more dribbling less blood corps forces.
We also have the problem that if we use vraks.. (5-6-7) we need to all be talking from the same page, and assume any other folks can too.

Do we have demons, lessor? codexy? do we introduce a method of creation (like fluid 40k do they cease replace the generic slot for unit with mark X)..Do we forbid certain units..e.g. which guardsman (or even run of the mill only been around for 2 seconds labotomised beserker) will be able to summon a hoard of bloodcrushers- or a 0-1 cap on elite and fast? Only an HQ or a veteran space marine may be possessed by a heavy or HQ demon? etc

With guard stuff..are evil guard= or in creating a more flexible list do we also have to reign in the mirror effect.. E.g. remove squadrons of leman russ, or say that only certain builds of army may have them .

I'm sure someone somewhere did this awesome one which was like a tree diagram.. choose HQ (militant rebel leader,rabble rouser/mad scientist, Word bearer preacher type, Lone CSM on a feral world.) and from that each FOC and ally was unlocked to a different degree.. I really ought to seek that one out.

There's two other/different/additional ways of permitting things I'm using in the Daemonhunters update I'm (sort of - note this is an unfinished early draft ) working on:
One rule (Factions) means taking one set of options excludes another set
Another rule (By My Authority!) basically adds prerequisites to certain units

Vraks pitches Zombies/Mutants at 4pts IIRC, although Beastmen are a bit over-priced IMO.

Those are the sort of ruleset/ RPG like turn the pages choices I was on about yes..
Its nice to see you have everything already planned (I hadn't seen the grey knight document before..its better than some of your others which are already great )
Here is another source/angle.. apart from vraks I didn't think this was still downloadable but google came up with it straight away..
http://www.tempusfugitives.co.uk/pdf/40 ... Damned.pdf
(its nice).

(back in the day when we signed http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/latd40k/signatures )

I'd like a place for fabius in there, maybe as a named mutant leader first thoughts- allows possessed/enchanced marines as a troops choice.

I'm looking for my old copy of the LATD, the point of their mutants was that they were very flexible and had a very passable basic statline (with almost no armour) and then could be upgrade with icons rabble leaders with fists.. and possibly have a CSM champion join and lead them (that bit was one of the bits that got complained about abit.. but its not 20 guardsman with a commisar good.) The vraks mutant entry is so manilla and inflexible.. the LATD one basically has mutants+MOK= beastment, MON= zombies (maybe there was another option for toughness), MOT= cavalrylike MOS....erm IIRC

EoT Mutants IIRC:
6pts basic

MoK/MoU = +3pts +1S
MoN = +3pts +1Sv to 4+ (also Zombies)
MoT = +6pts Jump Infantry
MoS = +2pts Daemonic Visage

(MoS I might be wrong on the pts, reasonably confident on the others)

EDIT: Could Mutant bosses actually afford PFs? Thought their WG limit wasn't as high as 15pts?

Other peoples work..
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/po ... age#262177
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Dakka ... the+Damned
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthrea ... ght=damned

This one
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthrea ... ght=damned
is more a straight bolt on to codex chaos.. where you can choose a leader and make it guard/latd like. V cool ideas-
The general of your guard cares even less than the normal guard and will let you be shot down in combat by your own side lol.

sabreu's
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachmen ... 1245169540
(not looked at yet but it got 3 pages of comments and support)

vladsimpaler's
http://www.mediafire.com/file/njmnzftyizx/ESoC
(ver1.5)

Some 'see entry in X' ones
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost. ... stcount=13
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost. ... stcount=18
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost. ... stcount=23

I love this one just for having havoc tanks..(not much else in it really)
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthrea ... ght=damned
(yeah fluff on STCs be damned.. they might have cut up a predator or something to hold 3 space marines if they wanted to really get angry

I'd forgotten how much I really like the tempus fugitives one.. Might have to try that one as is...although big mutants are 25 points each...urrgghh (if you breakdown the original unit cost they start with it as a 10 point for the pseudo sarge upgrade(1/2)..so to some extent its cheaper to have 3 units of basic than to try to take any more bodies for 1)

Thinking on the fabius route.. I figure HQ as in from C:CSM.. slight bump in points for demonic save/invulnerable of some form..(10-20, say 15)
Allows 0-1 HQ (free slot like honour guard etc) bodyguard of possessed.. unit cap same as CSM, get 2 rolls if a double is rolled can pick second. Cost slightly more than normal possessed.

Allows Elite CSM to be either enhanced (as per CSM) or possessed (pure CSM version, but small points drop).
Pricing needs working out through plague marines and BA combos.. table top then revaluate.

Mutant as a troop choice get some form of benefit- access to brute overlords/ CSM scientists leading mobs? (cost points other army lists don't get them).
BS of a fabius list will be low.. too many arms to operate machinary.. very few things should have BS4 (e.g guard vets etc unavailable) Didn't exactly hang out with abaddon when designed his tanks.
Limited demons in fabius variant.(demonically possessed tanks limited?)

Scum overlord (WIP).. would be similar, but unnamed lower stats no access to body guard cap of 0-1 on possessed (no enhanced) elite. Otherwise similar list.

Baragash wrote:EDIT: Could Mutant bosses actually afford PFs? Thought their WG limit wasn't as high as 15pts?

IIRC it was their total use of all their wargear possible (made them str 6)..
Cheese-ums dictates that of old you had swarm of mutants, + boss with fist + embedded aspiring champion with fist and (V expensive) icon of chaos undivided (granting rerolling ld 10) ..I also always argued for firearms even if they were silly deadly (someone did some maths where it killed more of your own squad than MEQ)

Got some reading to do...

That's a point.
Do you think it would be a good idea to have different docs of varying legality, in that 1 could be a strictly legal thing, then increasing divergence?

WRT power fists - wasn't the old armoury rules that you could pick X weapons (normally 2 single handed or 1 double handed+1 single handed) and X points of wargear? hence fists would be allowed, as they were weapons rather than wargear.

Havent read the rules, just going by the older armoury rules.

I was being lazy in my terminology

Occasionally models (like Acolytes in the Inq books IIRC) had the limit applied to Weapons and Wargear. Thought boss was one *shrugs*

LatD - is that not just the Witch-hunters adversaries nowadays?

Simplest would surely be to take the IG list, remove HQs & Troops, then add in the HQ & Troops from the witch-hunter adversaries section? Bit of tinkering needed with references to the C:CSM armoury & update costs of vehicles to the IG codex, but nothing too horrendous.

I guess a squad of C:CSM Chosen could be taken in Elites (or HQ) and split as per Wolf Guard if you're getting saucy...

With a bit of imagination ogryns = big mutants, rough riders = pseudo-screamers, storm troopers = pseudo-horrors (they even get summoned/deepstrike), and so on.

Or am I being too simplistic?

EDIT: Inquisitorial allies will allow freaky counts as HQs & unlock cool units like Daemonhosts & Sisters repentia...

Baragash wrote:Occasionally models (like Acolytes in the Inq books IIRC) had the limit applied to Weapons and Wargear. Thought boss was one *shrugs*

OK not completely sure GW wise whether this is ok, but since a mod is asking a question I reckon he can make the call (it used to be a free pdf from GW.. now we can read it here )
They could spend 15 point on weapons/wargear but no demonic gifts (which kind of sucked as you couldn't buy demonic str plus a power sword) fists were 15 for a champ 25 for an IC.. so it just used up their total allocation.

Ljundhammer wrote:EDIT: Inquisitorial allies will allow freaky counts as HQs & unlock cool units like Daemonhosts & Sisters repentia...

I don't want to be that overpowered ..Its just a bit dry, unless you end up having to stretch things like deth cultists are bloodletters and pentitent engines are bloodletter robocops on speed who don't need summoning.
Anyway complex leads to more discussion.