The Lord rule does not require a 'like' model for the Lord to get a WBB. However the Warriors would not get a WBB unless another like model(IE Warrior) was withing range. Range is altered however for things just as the Spyder and maybe the Orb.

Update on the game

I played the battle it was 1500pts and it went very well!!!!! Although I think I was jipped, you'll have to let me know.

He takes 30 warriors, 2 monoliths, 4 scarabs, 3 wraiths, 2 lords both with res orbs.

1st turn, 1 shot at the monolith with my 1 lascannon, hits on a three penetrates on a 6 then kaboom on 6, happy days

Basically the rest of the game went my way with dice rolls but we got in a bit of an argument over the resurrection orb.

Firstly, in one turn I assaulted a 9 man cron squad with a lord with a 5 man csm bike squad and my lord with lc's. The end result was that all the warriors were downed, but the lord with the res orb was still alive.

Now there were no other warriors even on the table (the other 1 deep striking, the other one dead), he insisted that they still got to get up since the res orb was near, but my understanding was that there had to be another like unit/model within a certain range to qualify for wbb. As it happened he had a poor roll and only 2 got back up out of 9 but in principle I was jipped.

Also how does the res orb work if I take the lord down with a powerfist can he still get up next turn, someone had told me that the res orb doesnt affect the lord (which I think is a little strange but thought I'd ask).

And secondly on the turn his monolith arrived from deepstrike he moved troops through it and had the additional benefit from the wbb role. I thought this was not allowed, but he assured me that he could do this.

Could anyone point me in the right direction with the rules, if so actual quotes or something or wording.

I think crons are hard enough, without being beaten by any rules issues.

Anyway overall I caused phase out in turn 5, and had only lost a 200pt lord, a defiler and 3 marines 1 from a plasma backfire

OK I reread the text. I think your friend may have been mistaken on the interpretation of the rule. It states that all units within 6" from the Lord (including the Lord) may attempt WBB rolls even if damaged by weaponry normally negating a WBB roll. From a Pure RAW standpoint it would mean yes they do, however the WBB rule indicates that a like model must be within 6" of another like model. I think RAW must take this into account as really the orb only negates the Power Weapon/double toughness kills that normally wouldnt get a WBB roll. It doesn't give WBB when one normally wouldn't be allowed though as in when like models do not exist.

The Powerfist doesn't fully kill the Lord if an Orb is present. The Lord will still get a WBB roll. See above explanation on what the Orb does/doesn't do.

A Monolith arriving from Deepstrike may still make its normal use of the 'portal'. However, and this is where its a bit odd, it may or may not use its portal to allow a second WBB roll. I will explain by making a fictitious example of turns.

Necron Turn 2:
Monolith arrives from deepstrike, and 1 sqaud warriors arrives from deepstrike (through portal).

Enemy Turn 2: Necrons are killed.

Necron Turn 3:
Monolith may redeply the destroyed unit of Necrons(if within range) and they would get a second WBB roll(if they were originally granted one).
However if another reserve unit was deployed this turn the monoloth cannot move 2 units in a turn and so the destroyed necrons from turn 2 would be removed as casualties.

I think here is where its important to remember the sequence on the necron turn.

First Roll for Reserves.
Next Roll WBB(if allowed)
Next Move(use portal to allow second WBB OR deploy reserves. But if reserves succeded they must be deployed.)

Hope that makes sense. It appears that your friend was right with the Orb use except when no crons warriors were on the table. Units in reserve o not count. and depending on the sequence of play he may have been right with the monolith. I just dont know if he got reserves the same trun as the monolith appeared or the next turn. If it was the next turn then he was wrong as I outlined above.

Glad to see you still had fun playing. Necrons are a tough army to handle. I am about 50% with my necron games. Low point games I tend to lose, however 1500+ I tend to always win. Mainly due to the larger units I can deploy at that point.

Well I was very lucky with the dice rolls which I figure makes a big difference.

How the lith issue went was as follows:

10 warriors on table in cron turn 2, my turn 3 (I went first) down all warriors

His turn 3 his lith is available and duly deepstrikes in, and one reserve squad walks out. he then teleports the dead warriors that failed their wbb roll through the lith to be behind the other warriors that came through from reserves.

Is that legal? The squad was headed up by a lord who was also downed but no other warriors were on the table at the time when they were downed.

The other prob I had, cant remember if I mentioned it was my lord steamed in with a seperate bike squad, my lord i 6 (with furious charge) nailed his lord, then the bikes nailed the rest of the warriors, 4 falling to an excellent unmissing/unwounding attack from a powerfist.

By my reckoning the res orb was not in action since the lord was dead by the time the powerfist killed 4 of them so they shouldnt have had the wbb, but they did.

And yes apart from the rules issues I did enjoy playing them, they take a bit more thinking about than playing against other armies and the gauss arc d6 thing is bloody great especially against a stand and shoot army

Hmmm.. He was wrong then with the Lith. It is very clear that the Power Matrix can be used to move a sqaud on the table if NO available sqaud is deployed from reserves.

As for the Lord being killed then the Warriors. Thats a tough one. The Orb is still there as until the Lord fails the WBB(in his next turn) the model isn't removed. I personally have never had this instance happen but probbaly would have played it like your frined did.

IE the Lord is allowed the WBB next turn because he had an Orb. The warriors also woudl have been allowed a WBB ONLY IF there was another Warrior within 6" of the firgure destroyed and the Lord was still there(as in hadn't failed his WBB). I believe ALL WBB rolls are considered to happen at the same time so it shoudln't matter if he rolled the Lord and failed. The Lord did exists at the beginning of the necron round still.

I agree that WBB is somewhat confusing and very much open to misunderstanding by both sides of the game. Having played Necrons myself though I believe I have gained a pretty good understanding of how they work. If fact I am willing to play against them, where most people in my area will refuse to play me if I field my Necrons. Another reason for starting my Grey Knights and now my new Tau army.

I think its pretty harsh if people refuse to play you!!! Though I do understand that the necron rules are a bit confusing.

My thoughts on the res orb was down to initiative steps, since his lord died at i6 and his warriors were fisted in i1 I didnt think that he'd get his wbb.

Also just to clarify when I downed all his warriors they shouldnt have been able to get up because there wasnt another warrior model within 6"?

Also if for example the lord had survived but I had still downed all the warriors and there still wasnt a warrior within 6" but the lord was still alive, would they be able to do wbb since the lord is still there?

matty570 wrote:I think its pretty harsh if people refuse to play you!!! Though I do understand that the necron rules are a bit confusing.

My thoughts on the res orb was down to initiative steps, since his lord died at i6 and his warriors were fisted in i1 I didnt think that he'd get his wbb.

The Res Orb doesn't stop working when the Lord "dies". This is infered on page 13 of the Necron codex (the Lord can still use his own Res Orb to allow WBB after being killed by a power weapon in cc), and the FAQ just states that models need to be near a Res Orb, nothing about the Lord holding it needing to be "alive". I'd have said that the warriors lie down, to test for WBB at the start of the next turn (also requiring another warrior within 6").

matty570 wrote:Also just to clarify when I downed all his warriors they shouldnt have been able to get up because there wasnt another warrior model within 6"?

Correct. There has to be another warrior still standing within 6" to be able to roll WBB.

matty570 wrote:Also if for example the lord had survived but I had still downed all the warriors and there still wasnt a warrior within 6" but the lord was still alive, would they be able to do wbb since the lord is still there?

No, the Res Orb only overrides the S=2xT and CCW with no save (power weapon/fist) rules, the warriors still have to have a model of the same type within 6" as well. Res orb on it's own doesn't grant WBB, just extends the WBB allowance to include "instant kill" deaths.

Spacker wrote:The Res Orb doesn't stop working when the Lord "dies". This is infered on page 13 of the Necron codex (the Lord can still use his own Res Orb to allow WBB after being killed by a power weapon in cc), and the FAQ just states that models need to be near a Res Orb, nothing about the Lord holding it needing to be "alive". I'd have said that the warriors lie down, to test for WBB at the start of the next turn (also requiring another warrior within 6").

Doesn't it also say that if a model falls then it is ignored for game purposes until the wbb role??

Pleased though that you still need a warrior unit to be within 6", I guess that makes for a very tight army

Fixed your quoting

matty570 wrote:

Spacker wrote:The Res Orb doesn't stop working when the Lord "dies". This is infered on page 13 of the Necron codex (the Lord can still use his own Res Orb to allow WBB after being killed by a power weapon in cc), and the FAQ just states that models need to be near a Res Orb, nothing about the Lord holding it needing to be "alive". I'd have said that the warriors lie down, to test for WBB at the start of the next turn (also requiring another warrior within 6").

Doesn't it also say that if a model falls then it is ignored for game purposes until the wbb role??

True. But given the Res Orb rule, and that snippet about the Res Orb still working for a Lord, and the FAQ not stating that the Res Orb must be on a Lord still standing, I'm pretty sure that as wargear it continues to work even when the Lord is down. I could well be wrong though - the WBB rules have never been completely clarified.

matty570 wrote:Pleased though that you still need a warrior unit to be within 6", I guess that makes for a very tight army

It's the best way to cause Necrons to phase out - concentrate fire on one squad at a time, ensuring that you knock down entire squads that are more than 6" away from another squad. It forces the Necron player to keep the squads near each other, which then makes for more fun when using Ordnance against them

Actually, the clarification of the Res Orb was in the old Q&A for the Necrons:

Q. If a unit is wiped out, and there are no models of a like type within 6" (and no Tomb Spyder around), can the Resurrection Orb be used to allow them a ‘We’ll be back’ roll?
A. No, the Resurrection Orb effect is to override the ability of high Strength and ‘ignore Armour save’ weaponry to destroy Necrons in such a way that they may not make ‘We’ll be back’ rolls.

Those older Q&A PDFs were often better at clarifying questions like this.

lol, yeah you've gotta love the defiler!!!

Spack, Thanks for answering Mattys questions. I agree with your view of the Orb and WBB. It only allows for a WBB when once would normally have been disallowed due to 2xt and/or cc/power weapons. The Orb however is wargear and shoudl be valid until the model holding it is destroyed and 'removed' as a casualty. otherwise the Orb is still on the board and active. That has always been the interpretation myself and others I play with have had.

Well I guess that sums it up then, so if the lord goes down the res orb will still affect the squad until he is removed as a casualty (failing the wbb roll).

Thanks again guys, they do have some funny rules, I just wish that gw would actually sort it out!!!

The rules themselves work, so long as you read them carefully. A lot of people misread the Res Orb though and assume it always gives them a WBB roll, even though it never says that. But they could do with being cleared up so you don't need a degree in English to interpret them

i thought the Res Orb worked at the time the wounds were taken, but the presence of like-models was checked at the time the WBB rolls were made?

i.e. the Lord gets to use his own Orb because at the time he was killed he was within its range.
i.e. you can get the benefits of an Orb if you are in range at the time you are killed, even if it is no longer in range at the time you make WBB rolls.
i.e. you do not get the benefits of an Orb if it was not in range at the time you were killed, even if it moves into range by the time you take WBB rolls.

its not so much a "Ressurrection" Orb as a "(cancels things that prevent) Ressurrection" Orb. at least, that is my understanding...

~ Tim

The FAQ states that in order to keep things simple when models are "killed" by power weapons and the rest of the unit then falls back then the position of the Orb is taken at that time to work out which models to remove from the table. However, it does say "To keep things simple", suggesting that this is not how the Res Orb normally works, but handling a falling back unit gets more messy as the models move in the assault phase rather than their own movement phase (plus the Lord might be falling back to further away from the fallen models).

I think either use of the Orb location is perfectly valid - both at the time of wounding as the FAQ suggests (and I'd extend that to any other time, rather than just falling back in assault), or at the start of the Necron turn when WBB rolls are made. This may well mean that the Res Orb affects more than just models in it's "range" as a falling back/consolidating Lord will be moving. I don't play Necrons, but my brother-in-law does, and this is how I'd let him play it if he wanted as it seems the only fair way in leiu of a clear clarification from GW.