Regarding DH (Parent List) + New IG (Allies)

mortiferum · by **mortiferum** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:53 am

So with the 5th Edition IG codex due immeniently, I wanted to start discussions regarding what is and isn't possible with the new codex. I'm specifically interested in what is acheivable when maintaining DH's as the parent list and using IG as allies.

I've read and seen for myself that simply incorporating an infantry platoon we are able to mitigate quite extensively (by incorporating Heavy / Special Weapon squads) DH's usual lack of Anti Tank.

This is all I've been able to determine for myself just through a very brief look at the new codex.

I'm sure there are many more possibilities and new builds to play with that were not previously possible and I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this.

Additonally, has the new codex prevented any of your previous lists?

Cheers

Morty

chromedog · by **chromedog** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:08 am

Not yet, but then I haven't used any inducted guard units in many years (when I started out with them, they had some AF squads and sentinels. Now I just use ISTs).

jlong05 · by **jlong05** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:24 am

Bell of Lost Souls had an article regarding this a while back. Here it is in case anyone wants to see their thoughts.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/04/ ... ortal.html

killmaimburn · by **killmaimburn** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:42 am

A lot of what mkerr says is about powers crossing over for maximum complements..There are still a lot of folks who object to this (not least (UK) GW tournies "83) Can a Space Marines character’s Combat Tactics or Chapter Tactics be used by allied forces within the same army, e.g. if taken as an ally in a Witch Hunters army? No it only applies to Space Marines")
Unless a faq comes up to the contrary..I'd certainly skirt on the side of caution- if allies required only ally really simple stuff etc.
Wheres LH he actually has inducted stuff.

mortiferum · by **mortiferum** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:09 am

jlong05 wrote:Bell of Lost Souls had an article regarding this a while back. Here it is in case anyone wants to see their thoughts.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/04/ ... ortal.html

I've read that article (an interesting read) - however, there are a couple of issues / concerns I have with the article though:

1. As KMB mentioned it assumes many 'skills / abilities' that cross over betweeenn parent / allies.

2. It has an IG (parent list) and DH / WH (allies) - I'm interested in what can be acheived using a DH parent list.

I noticed that (IIRC) that the special weapon squads (part of the infantry plattons) have access to demo charges (I'm assuming demo charges have similar abilities to the 4th Ed codex - good anti tank) - is there any way to deepstrike these squads?

Morty

killmaimburn · by **killmaimburn** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:00 pm

About the closest I can find is captain Al'rahem, any part of his infantry platoon must outflank.

Or you could buy a valkyrie, units can disembark pretty much at any stage (and some they count as DSing)
I think I'm in love with colonel straken, keep it under your hat though, the commisars just wouldn't understand.(not seem him or yarrick on a table yet)

Antubis · by **Antubis** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:33 pm

I can't wait to see the look on someone’s who doesn't have the IG codex when they get charged by old “Iron Hand“. I think will go a bit like this:

Chaos SM Player: "Your puny command squad is going to charge my marines, this'll be fun."

IG Player: "Yes it will, meet Straken, when he charges he has five strength seven attacks which ignore armour."

CSM Player: “8O”

IG Player: "That’s what I thought you’d say. Oh, next turn he'll be punching a hole though that Defiler's face."

And it only gets better when you add Nork Deddog to the mix. :twisted:

Ljundhammer · by **Ljundhammer** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:57 am

killmaimburn wrote:Wheres LH he actually has inducted stuff.

Heewwwooo!

There's a whole oad of wierdness at the moment as to how the 2 interact. I guess that we'll have to wait for the FAQ. I'll read that while I watch the next olympics...

There's a few issues in induction, some old, some new:

1) Wargear crossing between lists. In the past I've used the Book of St Lucius to bolster IG. I don't anymore, it feels wrong & cheesy & I stopped doing it about 18 months ago (when I realed IG gunlines were rubbish no matter what you tried!). For simplicity, I keep the wargear for the 2 armies separate, they are costed and balanced for each army (stop it! That's a different argument!), so to start using them for different units than they are designed is just declaring open season for cries of cheddar.

2) Special abilities crossing between lists. Yes Vulkan, I'm looking at you, but I think that there are some IG units that do similar, but not as good things... I honestly can't see why people think that this is RAI (although I'm consious that I'm not psychicly linked to GW HQ!). If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. I wouldn't ever consider doing it, but I wouldn't stop an opponent - however, if they apply RAW in such an arbitary & face value manner, it's unlikely to be a good game anyway outside of a tournament setting...

3) What the hell are the restrictions when you induct guard now?
a) Special Characters: These can be added to platoon HQs & Russes & rough riders. Can they be taken? I'd say yes, as they form part of the unit's entry, and are not separate from taking the unit.
b) Stuff what you can induct (running from memory here as no codex in front of me):
i) rough riders - no change, no probs (except special character - although IMO he's crappy)
ii) sentinals - now 2 types, but in one entry. I think you could take either, I don't think it's game breaking either way. But considering that there are better options, I doubt it'll come up often. I'd be happy to play against either.
iii) platoons - now they are massive! This really helps the =][= out a lot. A platoon is a platoon & now they're better. All new options appear available to the =][=.
iv) armoured fists - no longer available. A bit of a bummer really, as these were really useful & cheap to get RR's and russes into =][= armies, but meh, platoons are better, so it's hard to complain...
v) Russes - only one, and only a Leman Russ. But what does that mean? I don't know, I'm undecided. I can see the argument that it now means squadrons of demolishers, but the =][= codexes are pretty veciferous in that it's one LRMBT. I'll wait for a consensus on that I think...

There you go. One mind fart!

Angelwing · by **Angelwing** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:12 pm

In my opinion:
Wargear / special abilities
If it says effects friendly units' or 'all units in the army' then it works. I would check each individual item.

Inductions: If it's an option under the unit entry it should be allowed to take it.

infantry platoon: any of the options are available

armoured fist: doesn't exist as separate entry. Buy a chimera for one of the platoon squads instead.

Roughriders: as before, all options.

Sentinals: technically no such thing as a sentinel squadron anymore. They are now 'armoured or scout' sentinels. However I would allow either no problem as they are effectively the same as before.

Leman Russ battle tank: the witch hunter codex specifies '0-1 leman russ battle tank' The new guard codex has an entry for a 'leman russ battle tank' + options. A 'leman russ battle tank' comes with a battle cannon and a separate characteristic profile.
No squadrons of demolishers or anything else. I don't see what is unclear about this entry. There is no argument.

Special character upgrades are the iffy area. I'd say no, as they are a separate entry from each of the inducted units, not listed as an option under the unit entry. I can see the argument the other way though.