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State of 40k

Discussion of anything 40K related

State of 40k

Postby BANE » Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:07 am

I am looking for opinions on where 40k is at, i considered it a bit of a mess when I last played with lots of new things been badly bolted onto the core game, lords of war dataslates, allies for allies etc. Just wanting peoples views on how its panned out after a couple of months of bedding in and what's the thoughts on where we will be in 3 months time?

Also what's the current popular alternative that's getting game time by most players, just in case I decide to jump ship!
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Re: State of 40k

Postby Angelwing » Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:45 am

its fine in a small group of friends who play laid back, and ignore the silly stuff. data slates etc are fine if the game is planned in advance. However, going to a pick up game blind will no doubt expose the gigantic mess the game is in now.
Its messy because:
1) the core rule book is badly laid out.
2) the rules are bloated with unnecessary detail for a battle game (IMO it works best at 1000 pts or below).
3) the sheer speed of data slates / supplements / codex releases / formations etc etc means I wouldn't know a 'legal' army if I saw one anymore. It doesn't seem possible to keep up with new stuff. However: people asked for this stuff, and a complete codex release within one edition. Reap the whirlwind.

A problem I have is that I run 7 40k armies. This is my choice so no blame can be aimed at GW. Due to the speed and volume of releases I can't keep up with my own armies, let alone any others. I have the most up to date rules for battle sisters and necrons, yet I've not used them in 6th (in fact I've never used the current necron codex!). New guard codex is out now. I'll just have to ignore it until my armies cycle round to them again, but that might be late this year if not next. Orks are rumoured soon, but I've only just put them away, so they might not come back out for a couple of years. I'm using my marines at the moment, and will be changing to tyranids in june I haven't used the nid book at all yet.
On a related note, I emailed Forgeworld to ask in which books are the current rules for all their tyranid stuff ( I presumed scattered around in the new apoc book etc). The reply was they would all be in the updated IA4 book. So I still don't know where the most current rules are!

TLDR: I enjoy 40k, but when its kept simple. Keep it small, ignore the bits you don't like. Plan ahead with your opponent if you want to use allies, dataslates etc
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Re: State of 40k

Postby Cain Tiberius » Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:47 am

I can't comment objectively on the first part. I've really fallen out with 40k right now.

But on the 2nd part. At my local game store Bolt Action seems to be the most popular game right now. After that I'd say it was a tie between WarmaHordes and Mantic's Deadzone. If you prefer Fantacy, Kings of War seems to be storing some interest too.

Sadly the games I want to play, Malifaux and Dropzone Commander seem to be very low on the list :(
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Re: State of 40k

Postby KInG » Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:15 am

I can echo a lot of what AW said there. You know me Al and know I like to be on top of the rules/options similar to yourself. But right now there's rules coming in from all angles.

Fw books
Black library data slates
Gw codexes
Gw supplements
FAQs

I just can't be bothered trawling all those locations, spending all that money, trying to have it all to hand to know what I can do and my enemy.

I also would not know an illegal list if there was one in front of me. I went to that tournament the other day. I just had to have faith that the tournament organisers knew and had vetted all the lists, but I doubt they do either.

Just because of that uncertainty I'm am now also loosing faith in the game. I don't like to not know. In real terms how can you prepare for battle if you don't know your enemy.

I've played bolt action more than anything at the moment. It's quite balanced, simple enough to follow, and complicated enough to be interesting, if you follow what I mean. And there's no leaf blower list. If my opponent takes an 'over powered' recce or flamer tank, then without moaning about it I can also take one myself. And I use the term over powered here very loosely. It's not a warhound Titan were talking about here, ;)

And then there's the ig new codex. Read it, saw that we now have less choice, even with new options. There was more taken out than added... And a lot of stuff got nerfed. Arguably the right stuff got nerfed but never the less, for the ig player the dex is a disappointment. If I knew that this was an overall strategy to balance codexes, I would support it, but it just feels meeeeehh. :(
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Re: State of 40k

Postby Jay » Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:38 am

I tear rolled down my cheek when the horror was confirmed. Marbo is gone. Those distant memorie of him taking down a Land Raider will be a glorious one. Long live Sly Marbo.

Admittedly I haven't played 6th yet, to me 5th was a confusing mess because I was taught 4th from Gav and King and under there tutorship it was thoroughly explained and stuff made (some) sense. If 7th is out in June/July then I'll be approaching 40k as a total newbie, to my understanding now 6th is just a huge mess because of the rush to get flyers in / counter balance the OP codex's that came out during the end of 5th (GK's) and now the need to balance Bad/OP stuff in 6th. Datasheets and formations confuse me, in Apoc it made sense but I don't understand how it remains balanced during standard play. Terrain is just over my head now I get the buying of small terrain like defence lines but a huge bunker? A fortress? :| Allies just defeats the point of FoC and fluff.

If I do get a army painted (I vowed never to play unpainted again) then perhaps I'll play 6th and it'll all make sense but I wait with bated breath.
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Re: State of 40k

Postby Darklighter » Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:47 am

I think it's good and keeps people on there toes. With lists (that should be) constantly changing to deal with new threats and meta changes it's an interesting time to play. Yes keeping on top of army updates is expencive, but not always needed. For example I'd like an Inquisitor detachment and a Knight wing but I don't feel I need them to be competative. With my Tau the Farsight supliment is nice and can do some neat tricks but doesn't overpower the main codex enough to be a must have must use supliment.

I am having to hold back my army lists quite a bit though as people are very unwilling to change the way they play 40k. I don't really need to make any special considerations locally for flyers or superheavies (even normal vehicles are rare in most games). It means I can concentraight my force on limited aspects of the game making a few codex option over kill for the majority of games played. It's led to me fielding off the wall options just keep the games close(r).

It seems that while some people are stuggeling to find what works this edition I can't stop thinking about what to add to my armies to get the most out of them.

As for other popular systems my time is full enough with 40k. I can get by with just modeling if there is a gaming lull. But I know enough people playing that I can get a game easy enough outside of gaming clubs.
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Re: State of 40k

Postby DaBoss » Sun Apr 13, 2014 4:54 pm

For me WH40K is going the same way my interest in Fantasy is - I love the models and getting some real fun out of spending time painting. But pick up games at the Club are getting less and less each Month.
If I play it is now with my Horus Heresy 30K Sons of Horus with Knight/Mechanicum allies; have had a couple of 1 on 1 Apocalypse games of 6000pts each which have been fun.
GW campaign weekends and tournaments hold no interest for me, just for the reasons people have been expressing - I'm not sure of what is a legal list anymore and don't really fancy being spanked by a Cheesefest list of awesome $ollocks!

So what do I play instead - really enjoying X-Wing and Malifaux, small forces playable in 3 hours available on a Monday.
Otherwise at my other clubs and weekend games it has been Flames Of War, FoW is 'go to' Tournament now and doing quite well, I've found that there is no uber list of Winning in FoW, scenerioes keep it balanced.

Walking around Salute yesterday, there are a lot of "new starter" games especially centering around skirmish size forces, so it seems the Gaming Market is doing well (outside GW) - just worry if I get into another game, how many opponents will I have?
Must admit that Dropzone Commander is a game I'd like to do, but decided to look into "In Her Majesty's Service" skirmish game.
Mantic seem to be growing but found Kings of War unbalanced, Deadzone does not appeal and Dreadball not my kind of thing.

Might have a go of Star Trek Attack Wing - using Xwing mechanics which I like so might work for me?

Have to see what happens over the next 12 months - my spending on GW may become less (just tidied up my garage and found 2 Dark Elf kits still in wrapping!!
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Re: State of 40k

Postby Baragash » Sun Apr 13, 2014 5:09 pm

DaBoss wrote:Walking around Salute yesterday, there are a lot of "new starter" games especially centering around skirmish size forces


I had this exact same conversation with (the other) Phil as we were walking around.

I think Angelwing pretty much smashed the nail right out of the park with his post.

Ironically 30k is probably a much better game simply because everyone gets the same list + a small amount of flavour selections, and because they're only differentiating a few units, there aren't many (any?) stupid ass crazy rules, at least outside the Primarchs.

Played X-wing at Salute yesterday, good fun*, will be looking to grab some of that. Otherwise I've got KoW (not a huge fan of the direction it's taken but I can live with that for the speed of play), Dreadball (alright game, needed much more playtesting than it got), Deadzone (yet to play), Malifaux (not played the new edition yet). Also got incoming Hell Dorado, Darklands and I need a couple of starter crews for Freebooters Fate.

*May or may not be related to taking Vader down with a regular X-wing as the last action of the game to sneak a 3 point win over Phil and win a chocolate bunny.
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Re: State of 40k

Postby skywalker » Sun Apr 13, 2014 5:25 pm

It has fallen out of favour in our club, as AW said if you are playing a blind game it is open to all sorts of silliness. In the most part the former 40K players in our club have all moved over to Bolt Action as it is in our opinion a far better rule set and it is not so open to crazy army lists. We have always been open to other games, X-Wing is another curent favourite (whats not to like about feeling the force :lol: )

It is sad in a way as the amount of money we at our club has parted with for 40K over the last 17+ years was well spent but GW now just seems to be alienating a lot of fans who used to love the game.
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Re: State of 40k

Postby BANE » Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:27 pm

So where's the info on this BA game, rules codex's etc. I take it is free to download or something been non GW.
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Re: State of 40k

Postby KInG » Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:43 pm

no its not free cheapskate.. :P

its cheaper than GW though, by quite a bit.
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Re: State of 40k

Postby Ljundhammer » Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:50 pm

I'm not playing 40k at the moment. It's simply got too big to be fun for me. In the time it takes to discuss the type of games we want to play, I could have had a game of x-wing. In the time it takes to set up, I could have had a game of x-wing. The first turn dice decide the game (especially if you're stupid enough to use Strength D), the game progresses in a predictable manner, during which time I could play three games of x-wing. Then you pack away, which I could play another game of x-wing.

I also play a bit if blood bowl, and I'm seriously considering picking 2nd ed up again...
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Re: State of 40k

Postby Red Devil » Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:33 pm

Baragash wrote:Played X-wing at Salute yesterday, good fun*

*May or may not be related to taking Vader down with a regular X-wing as the last action of the game to sneak a 3 point win over Phil and win a chocolate bunny.


I enjoyed it, nonetheless! Picked up the box game. Will be getting another copy, as it's a cheaper way of getting another 3 ships!! I now have to decide what to spend my Amazon voucher on-the Falcon looks good...
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Re: State of 40k

Postby Herne » Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:36 pm

My own two-penneth. -
1) Too many gamers are getting disgruntled with GW pricing and blaming the game. Then jumping ship and playing another game whilst 40k bashing after but a handful of games! Play it. Much. Get to know it. Don't confuse the company with the game. Only those with REAL experience of the CURRENT game should cast aspersions. (I realise that doesn't apply to all gamers before rocks started being hurled in my direction.)
2) My issue is with the speed of release and the pricing by the company. The game I think in all honesty is the best version yet. Releases are too fast though, as a collector of several armies. I can't keep up.
3) Subject to point 2 this is anothe rreason several older gamers who've been collecting for a while are GW bshing - 'I have too many armies to keep up with your expensive releases!' syndrome - I suffer from this. However if I was a gamer collecting a single army, then I would only be really interested in the releases for my 1 army. I'd be glad of the wealth of variety and new goodies for my 1 army.
4) Subject to point 1 and 3 above - a lot of complaints I have heard are about the width of the game now - lords of war, dataslates, add on supplements, allies = 'it's all too much!' Well I agree - to a point. Somethiong I have been trying to get people at my club to see is that allies, lords of war, knights etc ARE all over-powered - if the two gamers ARENT taking the time to arrange their games carefully. There's a wealth of missions, sub-games and campaign materials that take all that into account, and if you play the supplementary missions in the new codex;s, supplements etc then the games become more balanced and make a feature of the 'beardy new units' If you just turn up for a pick up game with your 6 units of tac marines and a captain vanilla fluff list, and face off against a taudar knight titan beardmeister list YOU ARE GOING TO LOSE. But is that the fault of the game, or the gamer for not arranging suitable limitations. (Lets use escallation, but not stronghold...)
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Re: State of 40k

Postby KInG » Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:35 pm

Stu you have a few points there but the only one that has been mentioned here in this thread repeatedly is the amount of stuff. And you have it right when you say its the speed at which this stuff has been offered to us. What you haven't covered though is the locations where this stuff is generated.

I have an interesting idea: let's me and you arrange a hypothetical game here on the forums. Obviously time taken to do this will not be realistic, but LH has a point, u can play half a game of most systems by the time you and your opponent arrange a game of 40k nowadays..

So, Stu: fancy a game of 40k next week, if so how many points? :)
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