Login

Username:


Password:


Remember me



Forgot Password?




 Merchandise




Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Discussion of anything 40K related

Is 7th any good?

It's really good
It's better than 6th and good
It's worse than 6th but still good
It's functionally identical to 6th and good
It's functionally identical to 6th and bad
It's better than 6th but still bad
It's worse than 6th and bad
It's an abomination, kill it with fire
I dunno, but I like voting in polls
 
View results

Re: Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby Herne » Sat May 31, 2014 6:45 pm

Me too. I'm always open to well reasoned argument - I'm just tired of the crass none reasoned arguments that are just out to bash the game cuz they found another system they like. I think it's a shame when people can't accept changes and adapt to the newness. I liked 6th and think it ironed out a lot if the central gameplay issues of 5th, and I'm hoping 7th will introduce new aspects, whilst keeping what worked well from 6th.
No rules system is perfect. Not even fow or dystopian, no matter how much the advocates would promote them. I just feel that a little adaptability pays dividends for our gaming pleasure, and that If people genuinely don't like the game after trying then they should bow out gracefully. Share polite opinions and then go play something else without spamming negativity.

I'm not saying people on this site are, just there are many on other sites that are, and even in my own gaming club. Now I'm not a fan of fow or dystopian wars, but I don't go to my club or online spamming negativity about the flaws I see in rules and gameplay there and dragging down the players of those games. I just find it a shame that many do. We're playing these games for pleasure after all. I don't see that I have a right to hex other peoples pleasure just cuz I don't like their games. (Think I'm in danger of starting a rant about people at my club now, so I think I'll say no more on this point :lol: )
Cue tinkles music and pass round the peace bong 'can't we all just love one another man!' :lol:
My Gallery: http://www.ageofstrife.com/gallery/Herne

Nightbringer wrote:I like Amy Winehouse` music, although she looks like a Whippet in a bin bag.... 8)
User avatar
Herne
Occasional brush wielder
Sorceror
 
Posts: 1427
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:00 am
Location: Bromsgrove
Medals: 10
Anvil's Hammer - 1st Place (1) Gold (1) Bronze (2) Painting Entrant (6)

Re: Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby Baragash » Sat May 31, 2014 7:01 pm

I want to like 40k and I want to like playing 40k, but this version doesn't cut the mustard (TBH it doesn't even get the jar out of the fridge).

WRT negotiating balance with one's opponent before the game:

Why write my own point when someone else summed it up.... wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.

To be clear I have nothing against Unbound in itself. It obviously can be a riot of fun to lob everything on the table and play a big battle. I just don't need to pay GW £60 for permission to do that.


Regarding change: "they're expecting us to buy what they make, rather than making what we'll buy." If GW wasn't a dysfunctional texxtbook case of groupthink maybe it would have feedback channels and market research that flowed through to it making a game that more people wanted instead of shovelling out what the Sales Department desperately hopes people will buy, and each edition would be an actual evolution instead of tearing up a random section of the rulebook and throwing out some poorly-tested replacement in it's wake.
My Hobby Blog!
My Painting & Modelling Blog!
Gallery
"The Emperor is obviously not a dictator, he's a couch."
Starbuck: "Why can't we use the starboard launch bays?"
Engineer: "Because it's a gift shop!"
User avatar
Baragash
Sorceror
Sorceror
 
Posts: 1885
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:00 am
Location: London, UK
Blog: View Blog (21)

Re: Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby markb » Sat May 31, 2014 7:04 pm

Bane, after being in to 40k since the day 2nd ed was released back in 93, I hold out the hope that it could return to its former glory. However I just can't see it happening. I am sad about this. I have invested literally half my life in the game, I was 22 when I started playing and I am as near as makes no odds now 43, not mention literally thousands of pounds. As I said, for me, it is the law of diminishing returns. I have found each version less enjoyable than the last. This, coupled with the massive price rises, Codex creep and the need to have the latest shiny toy (read expensive big kit) to be competitive has all combined to kill my love, and loyalty, for the game. At least DzC appears to care about balance and are not basing their business model on releasing an uber unit and having you pay extortionate money to get it just to be competitive. That's not to say that Hawk won't go this route in future. It's the same as FoW and BA, they are, to a point, balanced due to the fact that they are constrained by history. I suppose they could go a bit mad and drop the Maus or Landkreuzer 1000 in though! With the new Unbound lists in 7th it looks like the GW design team have just said, "sod it, we have created a Frankenselections monster and we can't/won't fix it. Just do what the hell you want. Oh, and while you're at it, why don't you pick up 5 of these new 80 quid uber units!" I may be wrong but that is the impression I get.

I understand that they are a business, and as such need to turn a profit, but some of the price rises have been nothing short of daylight robbery! A prime example was the Orc Boyz regiment box set. Prior to the release of the 8th ed army book you could get 19 Boyz for £18, after the book came out it was 10 Boyz for the same price. I wouldn't have minded if they were new models but it was the same sprues just repackaged! That is an increase of 90%! Last time I looked that's slightly above inflation.

7th ed was, for me, GWs chance to do a 2nd to 3rd ed and scrap the entire system and start again and get it right. Of course they couldn't as they had backed themselves in to a corner by releasing all the expensive hard back Codexes as rapidly as they did. It's bad enough that people are going to have to get the FAQs to update them, if they had made them all obsolete then I think that would have been the death of them.
"The guns have stopped because we are at last about to attack. Even our generals aren't mad enough to shell their own men, they think its far more sporting to let the Germans do it!"

Capt Edmund Blackadder, the Somme, 1917.

Image
User avatar
markb
Captain
Captain
 
Posts: 653
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:20 pm
Location: On a high plains desert somewhere near Uzbekistan, lets leave it at that
Medals: 1
Painting Entrant (1)

Re: Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby berger15 » Sat May 31, 2014 7:10 pm

I have been negative about 40K 6th ed quite a lot (not so much here), and, despite not playing 7th - I find I have no inclination to try. For me, it is the continual need to spend to either maintain competitiveness, or keep up with the changing rules or codexes. In 6th I found I was being tabled by armies of extremes, which I previously could, at the very least, hold my own against. If I went for an extreme list I had to change my playing style so much I found I didn't actually enjoy the game - which led me to question why I still played.

I played Rogue Trader a little, but I was young and probably got it all wrong. Then I skipped playing for a number of years, missed 3rd ed, and came back at the tail end of 4th. I also enjoyed 5th, despite a few changes that "felt" wrong - no idea what of the top of my head - and I was probably over critical at the time. But I found myself looking to alternatives - something I had NEVER done before! I had only played GW games, so this was uncharted waters for me. What I have found is that although I cannot bear to part with my Dark Angels, I have a range of game types now, that fulfill differing styles of play - and I am much happier.

I wasn't impressed by 6th, but I still played it once in a blue moon. I think current count is around 8 games in a 2 years!

I may dabble in 7th at some point, but I no longer have that burning resentment in my gut about GW ruining MY game. And that, I think, is the crux for a lot of gamers - in their hearts it's THEIR game - not GWs. So when GW change something - for better or worse, people react in an emotional way. I've accepted the game has changed and moved on. Maybe my reaction to 6th of getting more into other games seems extreme, but I think I have found a better balance now. I have more variety of systems and variation in playing styles. I don't think I will stop reading about 40K, because I still love my models and the memories I have of games played. And 40K is the game that drew me back so it will always be a little bit special to me.
D&D quote of the decade:"Wait, doesn't anyone have a Rod of Resurrection? If you've got one, I need it bad. Get in here with your rod and give it to me!"
Image
User avatar
berger15
Veteran Sergeant
Veteran Sergeant
 
Posts: 353
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:00 am
Location: High Wycombe, Bucks

Re: Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby Ljundhammer » Sat May 31, 2014 8:55 pm

I really really really want to like 40k...

I may have to play a game. I tried that with 6th though and got my fingers burned - once bitten, twice shy and all that.
When in deadly danger
When beset by doubt
Run in little circles
Wave your arms and shout
- parody of the litany of command
User avatar
Ljundhammer
Brother-Captain
Brother-Captain
 
Posts: 1563
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:00 am
Location: Nottingham - the North

Re: Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby RotweillerofJustice » Sat May 31, 2014 11:05 pm

I'd like to just have my two once worth on the issue of bound and unbound games and rules.
Uh I haven't played 7th edition yet but I'm sure I will.
I've played 6th and to be honest I just ignored those bits I wasn't fussed about like warlord traits and challenges. It will be the same for the new rules.
With regards to the unbound argument. I used to drop into GW stores for pick up games while 4th was still out and you could play a standard game or combat patrol. I always took a few lists to cover this and the models to go with them.
If I were to drop in somewhere for pick up games in seventh I'd do the same again only obviously I'd make lists for bound and unbound armies that way I have the choice.
I'm also of the opinion that if you turn up for a pick up game with a balanced army and only unbound armies are available you can always say no.
User avatar
RotweillerofJustice
Shas'ui
Shas'ui
 
Posts: 430
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:00 am
Location: Ferndown
Medals: 6
Silver (1) Painting Entrant (5)

Re: Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby Herne » Sat May 31, 2014 11:50 pm

Aren't unbound lists opponents permission?
My Gallery: http://www.ageofstrife.com/gallery/Herne

Nightbringer wrote:I like Amy Winehouse` music, although she looks like a Whippet in a bin bag.... 8)
User avatar
Herne
Occasional brush wielder
Sorceror
 
Posts: 1427
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:00 am
Location: Bromsgrove
Medals: 10
Anvil's Hammer - 1st Place (1) Gold (1) Bronze (2) Painting Entrant (6)

Re: Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby Baragash » Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:09 am

No more so than anything else.

Before any game, players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use.
My Hobby Blog!
My Painting & Modelling Blog!
Gallery
"The Emperor is obviously not a dictator, he's a couch."
Starbuck: "Why can't we use the starboard launch bays?"
Engineer: "Because it's a gift shop!"
User avatar
Baragash
Sorceror
Sorceror
 
Posts: 1885
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:00 am
Location: London, UK
Blog: View Blog (21)

Re: Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby berger15 » Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:32 am

So unless you explicitly state no unbound, you could get spammed. Of course, there were brutal allies lists in 6th, so it's not too dissimilar. Or some nasty FW models. Its more the "not fitting the fluff" that bugs me about unbound lists. But, I believe GW have moved the 40k story along to account for this. I may be wrong, I frequently am. :)
D&D quote of the decade:"Wait, doesn't anyone have a Rod of Resurrection? If you've got one, I need it bad. Get in here with your rod and give it to me!"
Image
User avatar
berger15
Veteran Sergeant
Veteran Sergeant
 
Posts: 353
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:00 am
Location: High Wycombe, Bucks

Re: Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby cgra1 » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:00 am

I never really played 6th so its all new to me but I think that the tactical objectives make 40k a different game. Id have liked to have seen alternative activations like deadzone, dropzone commander etc but I think that's just because im used to that now, I always found that when it wasn't your turn you spent a great deal of time waiting for the other player to do something.
Im looking forward to my first 7th edition game as I think there's some good stuff in the book but im glad I no longer only play one system.
In regards to bound and unbound lists ive played with my local group long enough to know who will play the way I like to play (I.e bound foc) so will just pick opponents I want to have a fun game with. Id like to see what happens with tournament play but I never got involved in that anyway so it'only out of curiosity.

have you seen this?

http://onepagerules.wordpress.com/portf ... -page-40k/

one page rules for those of you who don't know what to do with all your models. ;-)
User avatar
cgra1
Newbie
 
Posts: 820
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:00 am

Re: Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby KInG » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:48 am

berger15 wrote:I have been negative about 40K 6th ed quite a lot (not so much here), and, despite not playing 7th - I find I have no inclination to try. For me, it is the continual need to spend to either maintain competitiveness, or keep up with the changing rules or codexes.

but berger... these are businesses we're talking about. They need a constant revenue stream, and the biggest company needs the biggest stream...

I bought into FoW a little ways back. WW2 15mm. They then brought out Vietnam, now 7 days war in Egypt, and next is WW1. This company has struggled of late. They entered a model market where stiff competition already exisited and they have struggled because of that. As a retailer of their products we are getting tired of refunding people due to the company itself not having stock on a very large part of their range. I can only presume its down to the redirection they seem to be taking into plastic, but if that is too little too late remains to be seen... but I digress slightly... the point is, without the stream then companies fade, your game dies and your money is gone.

My point is to have the best model kits you need a big company like GW to be able to produce them. If your not bothered about the models so much then X-wing do prepainted toys/crap that you might prefer. ;) For me though, that game looks like something a kid made up so he could use his Martel plastic toys with lol

And there will be more casualties before its all over, I'm sure can think of a few failed ventures right now who have a bit more history in the hobby than me. Never the less some will make it through and persist. There the ones worth investing in.

Just a thought I had when I read that part of your post... anyways.. back on topic.

7th for me Ive said, and from what Ive read Im still there; that 40k is now just a fun game for a daft laugh. But if I want a futuristic si-fi, chess like wargame, on an equal footing, with models that I made and painted to my oown style, i'll play DzC ;)
www.GamingFigures.com & http://www.AgeofStrife.com 15% off GW models 10% off FoW & GF9 - extra 1% off orders £100+ & 2% off orders £250+ with FREE UK SHIPPING now added
AoS_GF moderator
Image
User avatar
KInG
Archon
Archon
 
Posts: 5209
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 12:00 am
Medals: 2
Painting Entrant (2)

Re: Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby skywalker » Sun Jun 01, 2014 5:28 pm

Mr King I enjoy X-Wing on many levels, the models are good, far better than the Star Trek ones, you don't need to spend a fortune on the system to play and have fun. IMHO the models are far from crap they fit into a niche market very much like Wings of War, Wings of Glory. The rules are simple and a whilst lot of people prefer more complicated rule sets I enjoy rules that are flowing, easy to pick up and due my age easy to understand :lol: :lol:
User avatar
skywalker
Cannon Fodder
 
Posts: 525
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:00 am
Location: Redcar, in the frozen north

Re: Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby KInG » Sun Jun 01, 2014 5:51 pm

There still toys. ;)
www.GamingFigures.com & http://www.AgeofStrife.com 15% off GW models 10% off FoW & GF9 - extra 1% off orders £100+ & 2% off orders £250+ with FREE UK SHIPPING now added
AoS_GF moderator
Image
User avatar
KInG
Archon
Archon
 
Posts: 5209
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 12:00 am
Medals: 2
Painting Entrant (2)

Re: Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby berger15 » Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:06 pm

@ King - I understand the need for sales, but it always feels so.... extreme! Given what a vast base of players they have/had, surely it would make sense for them to keep existing gamers spending little and often, rather than pricing out and having fewer gamers spending larger amounts. That seems a dangerous path, which could prove self-destructive.
D&D quote of the decade:"Wait, doesn't anyone have a Rod of Resurrection? If you've got one, I need it bad. Get in here with your rod and give it to me!"
Image
User avatar
berger15
Veteran Sergeant
Veteran Sergeant
 
Posts: 353
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:00 am
Location: High Wycombe, Bucks

Re: Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby KInG » Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:02 am

well having to make less models to make the same profit seems like perfect business sense to me as a businessman, or even as pure economics ;)

and rumours are theres another rulebook going to be released in 2 yrs time. :D
www.GamingFigures.com & http://www.AgeofStrife.com 15% off GW models 10% off FoW & GF9 - extra 1% off orders £100+ & 2% off orders £250+ with FREE UK SHIPPING now added
AoS_GF moderator
Image
User avatar
KInG
Archon
Archon
 
Posts: 5209
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 12:00 am
Medals: 2
Painting Entrant (2)

PreviousNext



Return to 40K Discussion




 Social Links