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Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Discussion of anything 40K related

Is 7th any good?

It's really good
It's better than 6th and good
It's worse than 6th but still good
It's functionally identical to 6th and good
It's functionally identical to 6th and bad
It's better than 6th but still bad
It's worse than 6th and bad
It's an abomination, kill it with fire
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Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby Ljundhammer » Sat May 31, 2014 7:44 am

It's been out for a week now, and surely someone on this site has bought it and read it. So what's the skinny? Is it any good?

Which bits do you like and not like? What bits have changed and which bits haven't?

Let us know, some of us are on the fence here...
Last edited by Ljundhammer on Sat May 31, 2014 2:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby markb » Sat May 31, 2014 8:23 am

I was thinking the same myself, the silence on the subject is deafening!
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Re: Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby Angelwing » Sat May 31, 2014 9:41 am

reading between the 'I hate GW' lines on warseer, it seems people who have actually played it prefer 7th, mainly due to the new mission objectives. Apparently challenges have been tweaked so they are not so gamey as well.

Unfortunately, I've read the new FAQ's which bring all the codexes into line, and discovered a fair few bits of the tyranid codex have been invalidated, despite the book not being out for a full 5 months.
I'm getting the same vibe that I experienced at the change from 7th to 8th ed fantasy, which had very extensive FAQ's / erratas that partly contributed to me stopping that game. Anyone who coughed up for the expensive hardbacks might be a little miffed.
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Re: Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby Baragash » Sat May 31, 2014 11:30 am

The new missions are shit.

The Psychic Phase rules have two holes in the rules you could drive a Titan through. I also detest it, much like I detest the current magic phase rules in WHF, but ofc that is subjective.

The asymmetric nature of the allies chart (more specifically the BB rules) and the fact that Chaos (and to a lesser extent Nids) aren't BB with IG is a joke.

There were a couple of positive changes too, I just forget what they were right now.
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Re: Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby Darklighter » Sat May 31, 2014 11:33 am

Well With the club being shut all week I've not had chance to game with the new rules yet but tonight I should be playing my first game of the new edition.

For Tau my first thoughts upon reading the rules where Hammerheads are now an even worse choice for the Tau and with unbound armies we are even weaker against all tank (AV 14) lists because of it. Troop Transports have a huge bonus and will more than likely be seeing much more table time in the future.

I think the panic about the psychic phase and potential spam of deamons is uncalled for. After all who has that many pink horrors or the lord of change for that matter to just randomly spam units all game? Also with the diminishing pool only going up a dice or two per new psyker (or unit of) you're never really going to get as many units as you'd hoped and if the chain gets dispelled it stops dead.

I'm not even sure I have a regular opponent that'll even attempt it? Never mind one that'll use many Psykers.

For me the single biggest vibe from this edition is WIZIWIG or go home. If people are going to proxy armies or units your games are going to suck. Even terrain can be included in this.
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Re: Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby BANE » Sat May 31, 2014 2:16 pm

The problem with 40k is the the 2 approaches to the rules and what we expect them to provide, DL sees it that people ain't going to abuse the weakness in the system because limited models or funds to use the systems that are broken, ie no one has enough deamons to spam deamon summoning, this view point is fair enough and probably held by the vast majority of 40k players but who also choose to not be vocal about it.

The other side of the coin are the people who want a tight ruleset that can't be abused because they either play competitvly (tournies or just competitively vs friends) or they have small irregual gaming games and relie on pick up games to get games in. They don't want a ruleset where someone CAN turn up with 5 knights or 6 drakes and table them and ruin there night out in 25 minutes. The fact that these abuses can be done is the fact that SOMEONE will do it sometime. People will be building tournie lists right now that use this spamming methods, people will buy a whole host of deamons just to summon them, people will buy 6 drakes etc, hell it happened with vendettas so why not these? Now if you don't approach the game in these environments then its unlikely to be an issue cos a quick chat sorts a friendly game, but if you do, which is the majority of the vocal players then it is a issue just because you know its a possiabilty someone will abuse it.

I lost interest in 40k at the back end of 6th because the amount of different elements of a force made the game too imbalanced. Even friendly games against nige went out of kink because there were too many variables to write a balanced list against. Plus the game turned into a fortifaction slugfest. It became very static and was just about getting the most shots off quickest. For that reason it lost tactical depth and I lost interest. Lords of war just took the gunline lists to the next level. I don't see anything about 7th that really fixes any of these issues.
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Re: Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby Ljundhammer » Sat May 31, 2014 2:42 pm

I've added a poll. Not sure if it will be pretty though...
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Re: Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby markb » Sat May 31, 2014 3:12 pm

Truthfully, I'm past caring. As I said in another thread I have reached the point where GW is not going to have any more of my hard earned. I am surprised though that it has taken over a week for someone to post a thread discussing it. I agree with Bane though. For me, working away as I do, I don't get to play week in, week out. As such I don't have the experience of the game so I tend to try and make all comers lists. This became very hard in 6th due to the sheer number of combos you could have and now looks like it would be virtually impossible under 7th. I wasn't a great fan of 6th either and have found over the last year or so that my love for the hobby has declined somewhat and I think GW has to take a large portion of the blame for this. Hopefully BA and DcZ can fill the hole left by GWs fading glory.
Last edited by markb on Sat May 31, 2014 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby timewizard » Sat May 31, 2014 3:38 pm

I got a chance to just barely skim over 7th. At first gloss, it looks to be about as crappy as 6th, which I was never a big fan of.

I never got a game in after 5th edition, so I can't really comment on gameplay with 6th ed rules, but from what I read here and on other sites, it's either "I like what they did" or "I'm done with 40K".
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Re: Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby Herne » Sat May 31, 2014 5:32 pm

Right - a quick disclaimer before I make my comment. None of this is aimed at site members on this site, or any particular postees in this thread, but as everyone is sharing opinions I'm gonna share mine. Here goes.... can of worms open.....
I'm so BORED of the constant WHINGEFEST about GW games. Every site you go on - 'I don't care about GW anymore, they are too expensive, I don't like the rules' whine, whine, whine. SO WHAT - IF you don't really CARE anymore, then why are you moaning at all! People who moan do so because they care!
First – let’s look at why they are moaning - is it because things have changed and their old tricks and faithful lists don't work anymore? In which case - THERE ARE OTHER GAMES TO PLAY! Why can't people look at it as a new game, and pick it up with a fresh pair of eyes instead of expecting their tired old tricks with prior rules to still stand up! If they wanna play 'the way it used to be' then they still can! Just play 6th, 5th or any other version that made u happy! U still have the rules, the codex, the models... A number of gamers at my club have recently been playing 3rd edition again – and loving it!
What is currently putting me off getting into 7th is the number of gamers who moan so much about it that it's putting me off wanting to play! I used to moan all the time about overbalance and unfair rules, but I've converted to a new way of thinking - Just arrange your game a little more! Set a few restrictions with your opponent before you write your list. Restrict the stuff u don't like and the game is more favourable. For those that do like the more contentious rules and systems then there is wonderous variety! Don't moan about overpowered armies - deal with them by agreeing how you and your opponent will play. OK that doesn't work great for pick up games or tournament play - but theres other games for that - go play Flames of War! When people moan about overbeardy units I always think of the opening page to the last version of Hordes and Warmachine (Not sure if it's the same in this version) but it introduces itself by saying that the game is brutal and can be overbalanced, and if u don't like it to go elsewhere!
Now don't get me wrong - I don't like GW marketing, and I'm still sick of changing expensive codexes every 5 minutes and paying high prices for models. You won’t find me arguing there. But too many gamers are looking at costing and blaming the GAME itself. Every new version of a gameset or codex will have changes, some you'll like, some you won't - but why can't people just think positively and look for the good and see the negs as a challenge!
I'm sorry to rant but last night I played my first game of 7th and there were 6 gamers in the room trying it out for the first time. 3 of those gamers were whinging and whining about EVERYTHING before the first dice had even been rolled! Totally ruined the tone of the evening! Now I haven’t played enough or read enough of 7th yet to make any clear judgement about the game, but both internet and gaming hall's seem to be full of people pre-judging and moaning before the rules have been fully explored! People wanna rant - rant at the pricing, rant at the company policies, but for goodness sakes people - ITS NEW - give THE GAME a chance! Putting prejudices aside and accepting new things people may actually find they enjoy the game! If not - there's always 6th, or 5th, or 4th.... go play your 3.5 chaos dex if thats all that makes you happy! Stop dragging the rest of us down with your total negativity duuuudes! :)
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Re: Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby timewizard » Sat May 31, 2014 5:39 pm

Good points Herne!
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Re: Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby markb » Sat May 31, 2014 6:05 pm

Herne, I get your point to a certain extent. However, from my point of view, I have learned five different versions of both WH and 40k. I have adapted to each one. I take it as a personal challenge to adapt my all comers SM army to each new version. It has gone, virtually unchanged, from 3rd to 6th with only minor alterations to make it legal for each new Codex. I have largely managed it, adapting my tactics and the manor in which I play it to suit each version of the game. However, and it is a big however, I didn't really like 6th ed. I can't put my finger on what it was but it didn't really grab me. Now, less than two years later, they bring out a new version of the game, it may be awesome, there is that chance, but for me it is a case of the horse and the stable door. It is, for me, the law of diminishing returns. 2nd was enjoyable but too clunky for a mass combat game, 3rd rewrote the whole thing and, despite my initial scepticism, was a very good game. 4th sorted a lot of the minor issues with 3rd, 5th, I felt, wasn't quite as good but I still played it, but even this early on my enthusiasm was beginning to wane. By 6th I was quite jaded to the point that 7th doesn't excite me. Yes, GWs marketing and pricing policy doesn't help, but for me, at least, it is a general malaise for all things GW. 8th ed WH is another example, it's just not as good as 6th and 7th.

I will not judge, or moan at, anybody who does buy in to 7th but I won't be joining them.

As an aside, I wish I could go back to 2nd or 3rd ed but unfortunately a lack of space in the house forced me to get rid of out of date Codexes and rule books years ago. :(
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Re: Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby Herne » Sat May 31, 2014 6:16 pm

markb wrote:Herne, I get your point to a certain extent. However, from my point of view, I have learned five different versions of both WH and 40k. I have adapted to each one. I take it as a personal challenge to adapt my all comers SM army to each new version. It has gone, virtually unchanged, from 3rd to 6th with only minor alterations to make it legal for each new Codex. I have largely managed it, adapting my tactics and the manor in which I play it to suit each version of the game. However, and it is a big however, I didn't really like 6th ed. I can't put my finger on what it was but it didn't really grab me.

See - now that I can accept - it's a reasoned argument instead of the usual 'GW are sh*t cuz they are and I don't like them' commentary were drowning in out there. You have shown adaptability and have just found you don't like the latest itterations. A shame if you won't goive 7th a try - espescially as youve invested in models, but at least yours is a reasoned argument.
markb wrote: Now, less than two years later, they bring out a new version of the game, it may be awesome, there is that chance, but for me it is a case of the horse and the stable door. I will not judge, or moan at, anybody who does buy in to 7th but I won't be joining them.

Hence why hate the company - not the game... :lol: I think that's my argument - I seem to be surrounded by people whining with no real argument, and bashing people who still enjoy, just because they enjoy it and don't share the opinion of the moaning masses.

markb wrote:
As an aside, I wish I could go back to 2nd or 3rd ed but unfortunately a lack of space in the house forced me to get rid of out of date Codexes and rule books years ago. :(
My mates picked up copied cheap of ebay if u wanna go back... Just a thought. :)
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Re: Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby BANE » Sat May 31, 2014 6:18 pm

TBH Herne if you dig through the usual suspects on the web (the vocal minority who have received almost cult status because they done well at tournies and write taticas) then the majority of opinions I have read about 7th are extremely positive. And I agree with your post, it kinda makes my point, you are approaching it from DL point of view also in my opinion. You are arranging games with your oppenant to get the desired effect, good approach. You also make my point that for those that play competitvly or lots of pick up games this approach doesnt work.

"OK that doesn't work great for pick up games or tournament play - but theres other games for that - go play Flames of War!"

This is the issue for a lot of people that want to play 40k but feel its an easier option to jump ship than try to fix what everyone, including yourself have indetified is a broken ruleset for that type of play without even playing the game. And that is bad for 40k. I have zero issues with GW at all, I don't have a problem with marketing or there prices or even rules, I have freedom of choice to accept those things or not. There a business after all and have a board and shareholders to please, I know I am one of them. Other companies would go this way too if they had such dominance I imagine. I make a point of never slagging any games off ( That's not true I slagged mantic off once on here because I was trying to get a rise out of some people O:-) )

But like I said there is 2 sides to the 40k coin currently, and I don't think one will see the others point clearly and vice versa.

My disclaimer, I ain't firing back at you or anything, just conversing and trying to show the reason I am moving away from 40k is I don't feel I can play the current edition the way I want to play it and I ain't conferdent earlier editions would receive the support from others to allow me to get what I want from my hobby. I am willing to give 7th a chance cos I love 40k but with where 6th left off and the changes that haven't been made I am not hopeful.

On a side note wheres Toby these days?
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Re: Warhammer 40,000 7th edition impressions?

Postby BANE » Sat May 31, 2014 6:27 pm

As an additional point people clearly do care, LH has put up a poll and even bara has checked it out to see if there is any hope for it, for people this disillusioned with GW and 40k to do that proves that old players who have moved on or away still are hoping deep down to come back to it.

I would be interested to see there views in more depth.
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