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Ying and yang:

Discussion of anything 40K related

Ying and yang:

Postby KInG » Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:51 am

I just read a thread from bols which I've copied below. I then thought I would try and do the opposite with you guys and started listing positive stuff after it:
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We all cherish our beloved grimdark hobby - for it is perfection in all measurable ways! Except for that one little thing...



Culled from the greatest gripes of the community:

Infinite Look Out Sirs - It was amusing to start with, but when your Warlord has used the first 20 cultists as ablative wounds, I'm about ready to scream bloody murder. Can we get a reasonable limit on these per phase please?

Lobsided Challenges - I'm getting really tired of my Bloodthirster taking the time to paste your pluky IG Veteran Sergeant instead of pasting his entire platoon. How about Monstrous Creatures being able to ignore the popcorn wasting their time?

No Assaults after disembarking from a stationary transport - AAAARGH! Apparently those doors require a delicate 12-step process to open properly.

Jink Saves for moving 0.0001 inches - Ahh the nuances of strategic nudging. Its so silly.

Random Psychic Powers!!! - "Librarian, what powers do you possess to fight off the foul Hivemind?" "Hold on a second Brother-Captain while I consult the Magic 8-ball"

Placing Objectives AFTER Choosing Sides - Because that's totally not asking for shenanigans.

Allies - It seemed like such a great idea. We were all going to use it try out new armies, buy more miniatures, address subtle inbalances in our codex, buy more miniatures, add nothing but Heldrakes and Broadsides to our lists, buy more miniatures... Also see sockpuppet Tyranids...

No Vector Strike Cover Saves - remember soldiers, hiding in the basement of ruins is no defense. When you see the Hellturkey swooping for you - just stand up and take it like a man (or lady, or man-robot, does 40K even have lady-robots?).

Walkers Suck - Seen anyone using Dreads or Helbrutes these days. I guess they all decided to power down and sleep through this edition. Even the Whirlwind drivers are getting more play...

The Heldrake - nuff said.

Did I miss any?
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I agree with all of it. So why do I still like this edition over its rival. Well mainly for all the good stuff it brought us and the fact it cleared up sooooo many of the gripes we had in 5th.

So, we've all concentrated on the bad stuff for so long, which is natural I guess, will you now help me create some karma and list the improvements /clarifications you do like.

One of the best improvements for me was the expansion of the special rules in the core rule book. They have made knowing your enemy a little easier and quick reference of them simpler by having them like this. Although the new cod exes seem to be trying to break it again by giving new special rules in the codex that sometimes are just two or three of the current rules rolled into one, instead if just listing them as they are currently.

I also loved the addition of being able to target sections of a unit that are easier to hit and therefore kill. This is so realistic, as your men would shoot the guys running for the cover rather than the ones already in it.

So, what 6th bits do you like?
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Re: Ying and yang:

Postby Darklighter » Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:48 am

I'd like to add (and I've said it before) as a role player I play many many dice based systems, some with skirmish rules and some very abstract story-teller systems from cinematic to ultra gritty realism. The one thing I've taken away from playing many of these games and settings is that a system should represent it's setting and in some respect and it's flaws should and do add to that feel some how. It's the imperfections that add some thing to the character of the game and help to get the player imersed in to identity of the games setting. For example when you play the White Wolf systems is easy bent and simple to use, but you know you are playing WoD just from the feel of the system. Where a perfectly balanced generic system like GURPS (my personal favorite) is offten touted as being very bland because every game no matter the setting plays the same and a character from one setting could easy be transplanted into another (some time fun to do :D).

I guess what I'm saying is it's the flaws to me that make the system enjoyable and the challenge is in over coming these and using them as an advantage.

My personal gripe is also one of the things that can make the game fun and that's the amount of random rolls that have to be made before a game starts (can get a bit much with some Codex's and army selections).
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Re: Ying and yang:

Postby KInG » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:10 pm

Yes the randomness is not a favourite for alot of folks, but nick did u read it all... It's the things you like I want to hear about.
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Re: Ying and yang:

Postby Darklighter » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:30 pm

I did read it and my answer was it's the things I hate that make me like it.... It adds to the challenge factor and keeps it interesting and it's them quirks that give the game the feel it has and lets me know I'm playing Warhammer 40k.

The thing with rules that work well is that they go unnoticed quitly working away with no need or want for praise. I enjoy large battles with huge ranks of troops and planty of armour just as much as I do small restrictive games. I just like to have the rules well set out so I can work within the defined peramiters.

The thing that draws me to 40k over any other systems is the background and more improtantly the model range. I think the thing that makes 40k models head, shoulders and crotch above all others is the ease of customisation. I really enjoy kit bashing, it's easy with the amount of interchangeable parts and well designed kits. It's also hella satisfying.

Product support is also amazing with not only a huge amount of GW kits, but with addition of FW and extra backgound from BL you are never left to wounder what to buy next (I've a constantly growing list). As well as official tournements and painting competitions!
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Re: Ying and yang:

Postby berger15 » Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:10 pm

"Librarian, what powers do you possess to fight off the foul Hivemind?" "Hold on a second Brother-Captain while I consult the Magic 8-ball" - lol

One good thing in this edition (probably the only good) - Gunslinger! My DA vets with plasma pistol and bolt pistol can actually use both of them Wild Bill Hickok style!
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Re: Ying and yang:

Postby Ogregut » Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:50 pm

I really like allies. I like the idea of being able to recreate stuff from the background. The love the story in the dark Eldar codex about how rakarth "helped" the tau and tricked them into giving him test subjects. I also enjoy when a theme crosses over two armies; my chaos marines is led by a warp smith and apart from him and cultist every unit have demon rule as he combines machine and demon, so its a natural progression to take demon allies.

Precision shots are also good and a answer to the original posters problem with a warlord hiding in a unit.

I would also suggest the person who wrote the original post should be more annoyed at his gaming group than the rules; just because you can take a helldrake or broadside doesn't mean you have to. Same can be said about the junk saves.
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Re: Ying and yang:

Postby Angelwing » Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:31 pm

Darklighter wrote: Where a perfectly balanced generic system like GURPS (my personal favorite) is offten touted as being very bland because every game no matter the setting plays the same and a character from one setting could easy be transplanted into another (some time fun to do :D).

Good chap for liking GURPS.
Its a major strength being able to port characters across genres. If its bland, its because the GM and players are not playing it right. They are most likely roll playing, not role playing.

As an on topic post: a positive is that 6th ed lends itself well to a 2nd ed skirmish size game. The added stuff doesn't facilitate larger battle games.
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Re: Ying and yang:

Postby Firecrest_inc » Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:43 pm

I like the fact that while my vehicles have taken a hit with hull points, its more realistic in terms of the damage taken eventually stacks up an disables the vehicle permanently rather than just hoping for that lucky roll.
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Re: Ying and yang:

Postby Ljundhammer » Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:33 pm

I agree with the list.

What do I like?
Premeasuring is good. And even with the pay off of random charges (which are badly implemented)

Hull points (although toughness values would be better)

I think everything else is either the same but differently packaged, or objectively worse than 5th edition.
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