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Space Marine

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Space Marine

Postby skywalker » Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:06 pm

I know this comment will stir up a Hornets nest but has anyone else seen the news? GW have got an independent authors book taken off Amazon because it uses the words Space Marine, which GW has the trademark on in Europe. The bullyboy tactics have appeared. On BOLS there is a few comments and rightly so, stating that Space Marine(s) are generic in SF writing with mention of them as far back as the 1930's.
Where will it all end, GW putting a copyrite on every word in the English dictonary. Taking firm to court over copying model ideas and such I can agree with but this ......they are having a f@@@@@g laugh.
What would they have done if George Lucas thought the same as they did and took GW to court over the similarities between Space Marines and Imperial Stormtroopers from Star Wars.
Come on GW get real :twisted:
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Re: Space Marine

Postby killmaimburn » Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:57 pm

Link to BBC news article on it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21380003

The only question left is, is it a double double cynical and GW actually beats up little guys with a golf club for the free marketing? I had a marketing lecturer who (says they) falsified evidence about someone stealing stuff from a sharks tank to get their firm noticed by the press on a slow week.
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Re: Space Marine

Postby Baragash » Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:03 pm

I haven't checked myself but I read the book was back up on Amazon as of some time today.
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Re: Space Marine

Postby Stryder » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:45 pm

Weeeellllll considering that the characters in doom are considered 'space marines' those in starcraft are also considered 'space marines' (fluff not actual unit names i think) then i think GW are picking on a person not a business because they know that the big business (Id software, valve, Bethesda and activision and blizzard to name a few....developers and publishers fyi) because they have this no press policy (strange) and they are just making them selves look like total idiots by doing what they are doing....and if im right in saying when they trademarked space marine didnt they register the model not the actual words because if thats the case then personal and computer are trademarked when the PC was registered
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Re: Space Marine

Postby Darklighter » Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:11 am

They HAVE a trade mark on the phrase "space marine" and have done for many years (since second edition) they have every right to deffend that. If any one has a problem it should be with what people are allowed to trade mark not that a company is implimenting the law correctly.

I can confirm that the book is back up along with at least three other book with Space Marine in the title. Just becase a company has raised a claim doesn't mean it'll go through, but they have every right to do so whether people think it right or not.
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Re: Space Marine

Postby killmaimburn » Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:22 am

I heard that the recent (over last year) change in all the paint names (again) was to move all the paint names into copywrited words, e.g. codex astrates grey.. so that coat d'arms etc couldn't refer to them.

Not verified, but interesting, since pretty much cheap good old GW paints is exactly why I buy from them (and I do have a warlock purple from them)
Note the positive stuff coming out about lord inquisitor, where everyone was betting money down they could have a ragefest about it (like damnatus) but beasts of war etc are saying GW are bending over backwards to try to get it as a sublicence/under their umbrella so they don't have to fight it(because they think its awesome)

Where am I going with this.. oh yeah the space marine movie gets a blueray high def release in 5th march..Hands up anyone who can think of a more appropriate usage of the metaphor for polishing a turd.
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Re: Space Marine

Postby BANE » Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:31 pm

Yes the paint range is now fully TMed.

The point here is when and how vigoursly do you start to defend your IP, GW HAVE rightly or wrongly a trade mark on the use of "Space Marine". Space marines have been used since way before GW used it we can all prove that, BUT the trade mark was accepted despite that fact. So now GW has to decide when it protects what is legally its IP under law. Does it go in hard at the first breach and risk been painted as a bully boy, or does it go softly softly until someone really takes the piss and is ripping off everything they do and they take a firm stance and find the other company siting what they let slip previous as a precendent?

To be honest GW is the vanilla ice of the business world at the mo, everyone loves to hate them and that seems to become the norm.

Apple stole a tech from Nokia and built there whole mobile and tablet sector of it, when they got caught out they wrapped it up in legal work and counter claims and basicly ignored the issue and then Samsung hit them with same trick but this time Apple inforced their IP and locked Samsung out of the market.

TBH if i was GW, going off recent history i would take the FIRM approach because at least small kids(Businesses)dont mess with bullies.
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Re: Space Marine

Postby Baragash » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:35 pm

Darklighter wrote:They HAVE a trade mark on the phrase "space marine" and have done for many years (since second edition) they have every right to deffend that. If any one has a problem it should be with what people are allowed to trade mark not that a company is implimenting the law correctly.


I love how people keep writing this without bothering to research or understand that trademarks only apply in the area they are registered, GW does not have a registered trademark for Space Marine in ebooks anywhere and only has it for physical books in mainland Europe.

So no, they don't have a right to defend it because they don't have it.
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Re: Space Marine

Postby Stryder » Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:20 pm

Baragash wrote:
I love how people keep writing this without bothering to research or understand that trademarks only apply in the area they are registered, GW does not have a registered trademark for Space Marine in ebooks anywhere and only has it for physical books in mainland Europe.

So no, they don't have a right to defend it because they don't have it.


so they only have the models and the codexes TMd and since Ebooks are a recent thing anyone can dive on it and TM space marine for ebook usage therefore putting a spanner in GWs works?

also on a side note im not saying GW is wrong for defending its TM its just a bit too "rawr we stamp on lil people because we can" for my liking
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Re: Space Marine

Postby Baragash » Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:47 pm

I don't know what is required to get a trademark accepted. Regardless, the existence of space marines in fiction predates the actual existence of GW, and the whole point of the opposition to GW's stance is that it would put a spanner in all Sci-fi author's works, not just GW's.
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Re: Space Marine

Postby BANE » Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:31 pm

But despite the fact that it predates GW they were still succsesful in TMing it!!!!

So someone who deals with trademarks felt they had a right to register it.

Has anyone even read the book? It might be one mention of the word, or it might be a total rip off, the extent of the breach would put this in perspective.
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Re: Space Marine

Postby killmaimburn » Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:40 pm

BANE wrote:But despite the fact that it predates GW they were still succsesful in TMing it!!!!

So someone who deals with trademarks felt they had a right to register it.

Has anyone even read the book? It might be one mention of the word, or it might be a total rip off, the extent of the breach would put this in perspective.

just lawyering up in this thread.. copyright doesn't require mens rea/intent. It just requires that someone has a higher state of rights due to certain circumstances than another guy..hence it being a grubby battlefield(it really is capture the flag FPS).. Someone told me some really weird stuff about the patenting of fleshlights, but I was drunk and forgot the funny end to this sentance.
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Re: Space Marine

Postby BANE » Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:43 pm

@ Toby. Do GW have to protect there IP in the lowest incedent to prevent it been weakened against genuine infrigements, i.e setting a precedent?
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Re: Space Marine

Postby killmaimburn » Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:20 pm

You know I had to do EU law twice because it changed so much during my studies, I have no idea the current state of copyright (circa tom cruise "imma gonna sue you IN ENGLAND)
Some lolsome links
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html
http://copyright-infringement-notice.com/
http://www.ihaveawebsite-nowwhat.co.uk/copyright/

But of all laymans source, this is the most scary
http://blip.tv/blizzblues-with-darnell/ ... ad-5894170


"5) "If you don't defend your copyright you lose it." -- "Somebody has that name copyrighted!"
False. Copyright is effectively never lost these days, unless explicitly given away. You also can't "copyright a name" or anything short like that, such as almost all titles. You may be thinking of trade marks, which apply to names, and can be weakened or lost if not defended.

You generally trademark terms by using them to refer to your brand of a generic type of product or service. Like a "Delta" airline. Delta Airlines "owns" that word applied to air travel, even though it is also an ordinary word. Delta Hotels owns it when applied to hotels. (This case is fairly unusual as both are travel companies. Usually the industries are more distinct.) Neither owns the word on its own, only in context, and owning a mark doesn't mean complete control -- see a more detailed treatise on this law for details.

You can't use somebody else's trademark in a way that would steal the value of the mark, or in a way that might make people confuse you with the real owner of the mark, or which might allow you to profit from the mark's good name. For example, if I were giving advice on music videos, I would be very wary of trying to label my works with a name like "mtv." :-) You can use marks to critcise or parody the holder, as long as it's clear you aren't the holder. "


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"If you recieve a C+D order use dariks boot and nuke to destroy all functionality of your hard drive"

:lol: :lol:
Generally to lose rights in something, it must be explicitly given away, or someone must already have greater circumstance/greater rights existing but unknown until made apparent. (e.g If HR giger et al decided to kick some GW butt.) but as above..trademarks are different to other stuff..But I suck..nowadays.. don't ask me.. this stuff was 5000 nappies ago.

EDIT
ok reading up a little bit..
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/t-essentialreading.pdf

p15.

"Space"" marines"...Lol.. (they said it themselves back in the day)
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Re: Space Marine

Postby Baragash » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:15 pm

BANE wrote:But despite the fact that it predates GW they were still succsesful in TMing it!!!!


I guess the answer to that if you didn't read my post would be "yes", if you did it would be "only for physical books and only in mainland Europe" in the context of this conversation.

BANE wrote:Has anyone even read the book? It might be one mention of the word, or it might be a total rip off, the extent of the breach would put this in perspective.


The book tells you what it's "ripping off" in the blurb, it's the works that Starship Troopers.

By "extent" you mean "none" because GW don't have a trademark on space marines in the class of ebooks anywhere in the world. Woah, I have a sudden sense of deja vu.
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