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Tyranid codex

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Re: Tyranid codex

Postby KInG » Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:35 pm

I7 wow, that beats my dark elder wyches :(
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Re: Tyranid codex

Postby Angelwing » Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:18 am

that upgrade is an eye watering 45pts though.

I've read the rules section through, but I'm going to read it again and do my master list before compiling my comments for this thread.
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Re: Tyranid codex

Postby KInG » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:51 pm

excellent Jim. I look forward to seeing it.
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Re: Tyranid codex

Postby Angelwing » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:06 am

Okay, this post I'll comment on the new model releases and the codex itself, but not the rules. I'll save the rule comments for later as it will be quite lengthy.

Models: I have not assembled any of these yet so I can't comment of ease of assembly.
tyranid warrior recut. Very nice this, with all the weapons you'll need including the lash whip and boneswords which now replace the finecast bitz pack. Bits are are also included to make one model into a tyranid prime. There is no ripper on the sprue, and the old monstrous creature weapon sprue is gone as the relevant options are now on the recut sprues. A disappointment is the lack of wings to make shrikes, but FW does make a set.

Hive guard / tyrant guard duel kit. Again a very nice kit. All the weapon options are present and weapon swaps for the hive guard look easy to do.

Harpy / Crone duel kit. Big, bold kit. All options included. Weapon swaps for the harpy look easy as they seem to just slot on. The new plastic spore mines look great.

Haruspex / exocrine duel kit. Again, big bold monsters, look easy to assemble.

One thing I've noticed is the very high asking price for the new kits. The carnifex and gaunts get new packages that offer a decent (by GW standards) discount. The new kits are the high end of the scale. I do feel that my pile of boxes looks a bit small for the money paid, even with the nice 17% discount from Gav and Nige.

The codex:
Physical quality seems good, with embossed covers and good artwork. Inside, the spine seems good, but as we know GW books are a lottery when it comes to the spine.
Artwork: lots of lovely new pieces and some older B/W pieces given the colour treatment. The hive tyrant artwork isn't too good though. He looks malnourished. Somebody throw that guy some biomass!
Background section: The usual thing here. A few new pieces that read well, but the old stuff has either been chucked into a blender and splurged back onto the page or copy pasted. The battle for Tyran now sounds like a bar room brawl rather than a desperate but doomed struggle for survival. Its footnote rather than epic.
Hobby section: usual photos of studio colour schemes, good quality and some great dioramas. However, there is no hobby material! A handful of alternate colour schemes beyond the 3 'official' ones are there, but only if you squint. There is no conversion section at all. Its very poor, not a patch on the 3rd ed codex.
Fold out summery section: GW, please, please stop doing these, they are prone to damage and therefore can't be used for their primary purpose.

Over all the book feels, well a bit anaemic. The background material is read through quite quickly, then you're onto the rules stuff. This book is actually 10 pages more than the previous one. It seems too thin in the hands, too quickly read. It is also in my personal opinion at the very least 33% too expensive.
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Re: Tyranid codex

Postby DaBoss » Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:01 pm

Bought and built a Hive Crone this weekend (ready for game tonight).

Really easy kit to build, took no longer than 30 mins even with cleanup; actually connections to sprue were very good as they gave plenty of space to cut and very few joins that could mess up detail.

One slight flaw is the flying base, it has recesses to sit in but my model seems to wobble on the clear stand!
one bump of the table and he could fall off.

As to Price - it's going to have to prove itself in the battle as it's relatively cheap in points but there is so many other things vying for that 155pts (could get 3 Zoanthropes for its cost)

Will post more after playing tonight.
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Re: Tyranid codex

Postby Angelwing » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:46 am

Okay rules. I'll do this in multiple posts, and follow the sections as laid out in the codex.

Tyranid special rules:

Instinctive behaviour: Unfortunately this has been made more complicated for no real reason. We do have real disadvantages for failed synapse now, the bad result for 'feed' is a real kick in the nids. The random tables makes planning difficult, and if you loose synapse everything will fall to bits quite quickly.

Shadow in the warp: Improvement here, clean and simple.

Synapse creature: As it says on the tin.


Warlord traits:

Natures Bane. Useful if you own lots of wood / jungle terrain, useless if you don't. It will be useful to encourage enemy units to leave cover and enable a tyanid assault, but requires discretion if you want to use the cover yourself.
Heightened senses. Useful, but very situational.
Synaptic lynchpin. Probably the most useful for general play.
Mind eater. May tip the balance very occasionally.
Digestive denial. Very useful this one.
Adaptive biology. Occasional use.

Overall, nothing game breaking which is great. Build some tree terrain so the first one isn't completely useless.
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Re: Tyranid codex

Postby Angelwing » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:23 am

Hive tyrant:
slight drop in points, but also lost the 'free' lash whip and bonesord. Gained a psyker level and a point of BS which is great. Upgrades: Hive commander only grants outflank to a troop choice, lost the bonus to reserves, but still useful. Horror now actually works instead of being laughed at as per the previous 3 editions. Sensible point cost too. Old adversary only works on the tyrant himself, and only in close combat. A huge nerf, but cheaper than before.

Tyranid warriors:
No change, sadly. These boys really needed T5 W2, but didn't get it. Can now mix weapons within the same unit which could be useful. Warriors have to pay for rending claws now which will whack the points up for anyone running the old 1st and 2nd ed stock models. The prime does the same thing as before, no change.

Termagants:
cheaper per model, but upgrades more expensive. Upgraded gants come out the same points as before. spike rifles and spinefists are now a free swap (quite right too) and the strangle web has thankfully dropped in points. The unit can now mix weapons. Devourer gaunts still exceptional and cheaper to boot.

Hormagaunts:
cheap and fast, the unit to charge first into assault to take the overwatch. Don't leave outside synapse though!

Gargoyles:
Not quite as good as before, no point drop and upgrades are more expensive.

Genestealers:
No change, same old problems. Broodlord restricted to 'the horror' power. Fortunately is fairly useful. This brings up my first real wtf? moment. There doesn't appear to be any way for the broodlord to actually buy the scything talons the model is carrying ( and labelled as such in the photograph section!).

Lictors:
Point drop and addition of Infiltrate have made these more useful. Infiltrate means the pheromone trail rule actually works rather than hoping against hope for lucky reserve rolls.

Zoanthropes:
As before, but are now a brotherhood of psykers. They can't swap out the warp blast power any more, but you do generate 1 extra power.

Tyrant guard:
slightly cheaper, and now have crushing claw option. I reckon lashwhip bonesword will be the go to option. These boys will be required for a walking tyrant.

Hive guard:
lost a point of BS and increased in points for some reason. Impaler cannons better now as the cover issue has been resolved. The shock cannon is an interesting option.
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Re: Tyranid codex

Postby Angelwing » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:58 am

Venomthropes:
Will almost be required from now on. The big change is also subtle. The spore cloud has changed from granting a 5+ cover save to shrouded. This means it now stacks with cover. Vital for the swarm.

Tervigon:
Hit with the nerf bat sadly. reduced pyschic ability, reduced gant boosting ability, spawning ability not quite as good, and the synaptic backlash is far more hurtful. Also have a point increase and bigger tax to take as a troop unit too. Ouch. Still a useful unit but I don't think the majority of this is justified.

Raveners:
As before, but can now take the red terror as a unit upgrade. The terror is cheaper, but no longer a MC. The swallow whole rule has been slightly improved though.

Biovores:
Much better due to the spore mine improvements.

Exocrine:
I really do think everyone will take one of these at least. A fairly cheap source of AP2 shooting, and nasty too.

Haruspex:
Fairly cheap, but I think it will get tarpitted easily. The 'Gulp!' rule is the new embarrassing kill option in the codex.

Pyrovore:
gained an improved statline and a slight point decrease. Acid maw is slightly better. Sadly they will still be left in the case by most people. Now for my second wtf? The volatile rule is so badly worded as to be nonsense. I think what its trying to say is every model within D6" takes a S3 hit. They've got the sentence order mixed up and it makes little sense. Its already created uproar on warseer.

Carnifex:
Big winners here. Point drop, can mix weapons within broods and a few more options back. However, the base model and the double devourer options will be the best.

Ripper swarms:
oh dear oh dear oh dear. In what universe does GW think these boys need a 30% point increase for no reason whatsoever? This one thats what. Now even more difficult to justify spending the last few points on a fun ripper brood.

Mawloc
Yikes. Seems really good, but there are problems. First off it sits in reserves now, not automatically comes on. Second, its lost the rule that a unit that can't get out of the way is destroyed. Third if it doesn't destroy enough stuff to be placed it hits again (which is good), but if it fails again your opponent gets to roll on the mishap chart. this is very bad. but then the wtf? confusion arises. Can your opponent place the mawloc on your units and make them take hits? If you fail to kill enough of your own men do you roll mishap again?
Yet again GW have made a confusing hash of the terror from the deep rule. Silly. Await the FAQ with apprehension.

trygon:
as before. Prime is probably the better choice as he has better equipment options. Tunnel deployment still subject to serendipitous reserve rolls, so don't plan on it.

Crone and harpy:
I can really comment on these as I never used the harpy in the last book (no model). They seem cheap and cheerful, but i suspect will end up shot to bits. The harpy screech rule will be useful for combined assaults.

Tyrannofex
Big points drop (really needed). same as before really.

Swarmlord.
still useful, better psyker.

Old one eye.
Much needed points drop, but its still not enough.

Deathleaper.
as before, but the where is it rule is very useful indeed.
Last edited by Angelwing on Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tyranid codex

Postby Angelwing » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:00 am

I'll review the weapons and psychic powers, plus give my overall thoughts next time.
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Re: Tyranid codex

Postby KInG » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:31 pm

Awesome summary so far Jim. Many thanks for that 'little' insight. ;)
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Re: Tyranid codex

Postby DaBoss » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:14 pm

Played 1500pts vs a Taudar List - Lost but lasted to turn 5, shooting is definitely King of this edition.
I took:
Swarmlord + 2 Tyrant Guard
3 x Termagant Broods (15), one unit with Spinefists
1 x Hormagaunts (15)
1 x Zoanthrope
1 x Hive Crone
1 x Spore Mines (3)
1 x Trygon Prime
2 x Trygons

Small units of Gaunts get chewed up very quickly and don't have the speed to get across the table.
Zoanthrope dies to Str8+ weapons, I failed my first hit to a bright lance
Trygons with the Swarmlord bonus +1 to reserve rolls appeared turn 2 but then got shot down by turn 4 from massed pulse rifles and Dire Avengers. BS3 is not really very good, getting only half my shots hitting and then the Taudar getting their 4+ armour save.
Hive Crone was a great threat to the Taudar, breath hit a good number of models before it got grounded and then bashed by Riptide Str10 hit.
Swarmlord managed just 1 close combat kill before being targeted by every gun possible.
Paroxysm psychic power is a good power managed to drop a squadron of Jet bikes down To BS1, otherwise rolled nothing else of much use.

So not particularly impressed with the new book - like the Hive Crone, might get another, but how to build a list that can work in new addition?
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Re: Tyranid codex

Postby Angelwing » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:23 am

DaBoss wrote:Swarmlord + 2 Tyrant Guard
3 x Termagant Broods (15), one unit with Spinefists
1 x Hormagaunts (15)
1 x Zoanthrope
1 x Hive Crone
1 x Spore Mines (3)
1 x Trygon Prime
2 x Trygons

So not particularly impressed with the new book - like the Hive Crone, might get another, but how to build a list that can work in new addition?


Firstly, don't play taudar cheese fest lists.

I agree that shooting is king this edition.
I'd drop the two trygons and use biovores and an exocrine instead. Any further spare points grab another zoanthrope, and try to shove in some venomthropes for the essential cover bonus.
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Re: Tyranid codex

Postby Wulfen88 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:06 pm

Hi, I'm new to this forum and I joined hopefully looking to get some battle experience under my belt, sorry in advance if I'm in the wrong place, but is there any game days going anywhere or is there anyone that would fancy a few battles just so I can put my army through some lists and tactics I have in mind?
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Re: Tyranid codex

Postby paulmc » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:12 pm

angelwing, very nice review
wulfen, there are some club forums if you want to introduce yourself and arrange some games. where are you from? theres bound to be gamers near you. im from boro but game with the redcar raiders mostly. every mon & thurs from 7 pm if your local theres a few 40k players plus loads of other systems if ur intetested
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Re: Tyranid codex

Postby Angelwing » Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:39 am

Okay, next part.

Weapons:
Boneswords. Inevitable reduction to AP3, but the instant death rule is better.

Crushing claws. Big change. still unwieldy, but a strength bonus, AP2 and armourbane means destroying tanks will be easy, even better that you won't really need to use the smash rule and sacrifice attacks.

Lash whips. Changed to give an Int bonus rather than reduce the enemy Int. I think this is slightly worse as the enemy still strikes at his normal initiative.

Rending claws. As before but now have AP5 which is a bonus. Combine these with bonesword and lashwhip to make enemy characters cry.

Scything talons. Lost the reroll bonus for some reason. Just a close combat weapon with AP6. Models with two pairs of these gain an attack in exchange for losing reroll all misses. I think this is worse to be honest.

Ranged weapons: Mostly identical to last edition, so i'll just highlight a few items.

Bio plasmic cannon. exocrines weapon, this is nasty. A short range plasma cannon of doom. Expect this to feature in many game to come.

Deathspitter. Please please give this back its blast marker. There is still no real reason to pick this over devourers. The monstrous creature twinlinked version thankfully dropped in points by a lot. Sadly, you would still find the points to pay for the twin devourers instead. They are still superior.

Devourers: lost the leadership penalty to morale tests, but still the go to workhorse weapon. The twin linked brainleech version is king.

Drool cannon and flamespurt: should really have been 'torrent'

Thorax biomorph guns: lost the ability to fire these as well as normal weapons, so a bit of a nerf. On the other hand they are slightly better in effect.

grasping tongue: haruspex only, but the new humiliation kill weapon.

Impaler cannon: better now it ignores cover and doesn't require LOS.

shock cannon: new hive guard weapon. could be interesting. is it better than the impaler cannon? difficult to say.

spike rifle, spinefists: thankfully free swap for fleshborer.

Strangleweb: big point drop, and now rolls against toughness not strength. This won't make a huge difference unless to fight orks a lot. (guess who I play against a lot?)

tentaclids: new anti air missile. requires playtesting to determine is usefulness.

Venomcannons: Fortunately lost the penalty to damage chart rolls. I still think this should be changed to Blast, assault 2, but its better than before, the heavy version may see more use for antitank work. the normal version is also cheap and cheerful.

Sporemines: the old cluster deployment was utter crap. Far far improved now. Random movement is gone, replace by a slower move but under player control. biovores and cluster units got a big boost here.


Biomorphs:

Acid blood. as before but the same unclear problem remains: do you test for each wound suffered up the the creatures remain number of wounds, or is it really a test for each wound suffered even if its more than the creatures remaining wounds? Eg. an ork unit inflicts 20 unsaved wounds on a 3 wound tyranid. Do they take 3 tests or 20?

Blinding venom. changed, needs testing before I can decide.

regeneration: only one wound can be regained a turn, buts its now a 4+ rather than 6+

fleshhooks / spinebanks. assault grenades can now be taked on more creatures. huzzah!

toxin sacs: as before. expect to see lots of these on bigger creatures.

adrenal glands: grants fleet as well as furious charge. Mandatory for any assault nid models.

tail biomorphs: huzzah a use for those bits on the sprue! cheap and cheerful, nothing game breaking. all seem about the same rather like power weapons.


Bio artifacts:
maw claw: cheap and cheerful fun.
norn crown. expensive
miasma cannon. expect to see this a lot.
ymgarl factor. so so, but might be a fun surprise now and again.
reaper of obliterax: expensive indeed, but will make your MC smash close combat opponents into small pieces.

overall, they seem priced correctly and are not over the top. Try this combination: Hive tyrant with thorax desiccator larvae, miasma cannon and maw claw. Thats a long range blast poison 2+ on the way in, 2 poison 2+ templates in close and when a close combat wound is caused, its preferred enemy on top! adrenal gland for fleet and hopefully the onslaught power to run and shoot...heh heh.

Powers of the hive mind:
Yes tyranid can no longer take any BRB psychic powers. I won't debate why, its just how it is now. So what tools do we have? Well they are mostly subtle, not flashy.
Dominion boosts synapse range (and you don't want to be outside synapse)
Catalyst grants feel no pain to the caster and another friendly unit. Very useful.
The Horror is a pinning check at -2. good before changing enemy units in cover.
Onslaught as before: Run then shoot.
Paroxysm reduces WS and BS by D3. not a good as before, but better range.
Pyschic scream is a short range nova power. this should cause a few wounds.
Warp blast as before.

The important thing here is all the blessings and maledictions are no longer classed as a shooting attack (as per the previous codex) which made them almost useless. The new list is about subtle tipping the balance in your favour rather than blasting the enemy to bits.
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