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Genestealer Cult - 5th ed Update (Combat Patrol)

For discussing new rules and changes to the current rules, such as new homebrew datasheets for Apocalypse

Postby killmaimburn » Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:54 pm

to desperate to flee sounds like the leadership test fail and then suffer the wounds of deciding to stand it out fluffwise. (of which leadership is not a factor passed point 1) Your fluff seemed to be leading you down that highway.
Ld 10 (espeically if its unmodifiable) can be better than ld 9 fearless. And yes I am remembering your scope of battle, most people will be within his aura\leadership bubble.
Right you say fleeing could be too much...how abuot pinned to recognise their indececision at the loss of their leader.
Range wise it would balance if it was the same as those who had beneifited from his traits.
So you have his invincible leadership bubble of cannonness book of st lucius over your conscripts and then when the cannonness dies those that are influenced by that aura are so shell shocked that the immotral leader has been smacked down they are immediatly pinned whilst soul searching for what to do....during this time pinned they gain +1 to cover save (kinds of crossing lurking with 5th ed for a bit of sillyness i assume they'll all be sat with their heads in their hands which makes them smaller targets\ going to ground to reestablish themesleves)
Last edited by killmaimburn on Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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World of ME First try at Apoc Batrep WHAT/WHO is AOS?
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Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:26 pm

killmaimburn wrote:Ld 10 (espeically if its unmodifiable) can be better than ld 9 fearless. And yes I am remembering your scope of battle, most people will be within his aura\leadership bubble.
...
Range wise it would balance if it was the same as those who had beneifited from his traits.
So you have his invincible leadership bubble of cannonness book of st lucius over your conscripts

its not unmodifiable - its just like the IG Ld bubble (or Rites of Battle with limited range): you still suffer modifiers for outnumbering in CC, below 50% etc. (maybe this needs clarifying in his rules?)

killmaimburn wrote:Right you say fleeing could be too much...how abuot pinned to recognise their indececision at the loss of their leader.

that could work, yeah. :idea: :)
(and those in really desperate situations, i.e. in CC, would be exempt)

would that be all non-Stealers, or just those units using his Ld?

and if its going to be the whole army, do they need something to compensate (e.g. the Ld 10 applying to the whole army, via Brood Telepathy)?

killmaimburn wrote:during this time pinned they gain +1 to cover save

not sure about that - i see them more as standing there dumbstruck rather than Lurking.

cheers! :)

~ Tim
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:) I am "LMTRK" on The Wizards Community and MTG Salvation
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Postby killmaimburn » Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:35 pm

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:that could work, yeah. :idea: :)

would that be all non-Stealers, or just those units using his Ld?

Its not a kmb original, I'm fairly sure there are a few units who may opt to be pinned instead of running away.. this just staples that onto the tau.
i'd be tempted to say all non fearless within radius.. but thats untested.Its one of those ones you'd tweak after your first 20 games. If its too harsh you'd make it a test with modifiers, if it meant all good stuff with no bad stuff you'd possibly up his cost or add an element about the shock meaning not aonly pinnedbut if assualted are at -1 to WS due to losing their convictions or something.. but only playtesting solidly for a month can work that out for you.
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World of ME First try at Apoc Batrep WHAT/WHO is AOS?
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Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:52 pm

talking of playtesting, Matt are you still up for that?

the list feels a little more finalised now.

cheers

~ Tim
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an update:

Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:56 am

Hey all :)

some good news: i just received my Magus from ebay (a bargain at £5.20 inc. P&P). :D

this means i now have:

- Magus
- 4 Hybrids with claws (need 1 more)
- 2 Hybrids without claws (need 3 more)
- 6 Genestealers (from BFM)
- 3 Genestealer Familiars (i was thinking of using these for an objective marker)
- various arms, weapons and claws

the cult is well on its way! :twisted:

cheers

~ Tim
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:) I am "LMTRK" on The Wizards Community and MTG Salvation
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Re: an update:

Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:18 pm

following a PM i sent to Matt (and suggestions in this thread), here is the latest revision of the list:

Code: Select all
Genestealer Magus - Force Commander - 80 pts

WS    BS    S    T    W    I    A    Ld    Sv
3     3    3    3    2    4   1(2)  10  5+/3+Inv

Unit Type: Infantry
Unit Size: 1 Model
Weapons: Laspistol, Force Weapon (Staff)
Special Rules:
- Independant Character
- Fearless
- Psyker
- Psychic Power - "Jinx": Requires a successful Psychic Test, cast instead of shooting, targets any enemy unit that has at least one model within Range (24") and LOS. An affected unit must re-roll all successful 'to-hit' rolls in its following Shooting Phase. Does not affect who the Magus can charge, and if he is joined to a unit, they are not restricted to shooting/charging the same unit he targets with the power (i.e. it does not work like shooting).
- Psychic Shield: The Magus has 3+ Invulnerable Save, and cannot suffer Instant Death.
- Hive Beacon: All friendly units that have at least one model within 12" of the Magus may use his Ld for any Leadership tests while he is alive. If the Magus is removed from play, all friendly units withing 12" must take an immediate Pinning Test.


Brood Brothers Squad - 60 pts

WS    BS    S    T    W    I    A    Ld    Sv
2     2    3    3    1    4    1     5    6+

Unit Type: Infantry
Unit Size: 10 Models
Weapons: Lasguns/Autoguns. In addition, 1 model has a Flamer and 1 has a Heavy Stubber (R24", S4, AP6, Assault 3).
Special Rules:
- Home Turf: The unit has the Scouts and Move Through Cover USRs. If the Magus is joined to the unit, these rules are NOT lost.


Brood Brothers Anti-tank Squad - 40 pts

WS    BS    S    T    W    I    A    Ld    Sv
2     2    3    3    1    4    1     5    6+

Unit Type: Infantry
Unit Size: 6 Models
Weapons: Lasguns/Autoguns, Krak Grenades. In addition, 3 models have Rocket Launchers (R24", S8, AP3, Assault 1).
Special Rules:
- Home Turf (see above)


Genestealer Hybrid Brood - 100 pts

WS    BS    S    T    W    I    A    Ld    Sv
3     2    4    3    1    4   1(2)   8    5+

Unit Type: Infantry
Unit Size: 10 Models
Weapons: Laspistols/Autopistols, Close Combat Weapons, Frag Grenades. In addition, 5 models have Rending Claws.
Special Rules:
- Fleet
- Home Turf (see above)


Genestealer Purestrain Brood - 120 pts

WS    BS    S    T    W    I    A    Ld    Sv
6     0    4    4    1    6   2(3)  10    5+

Unit Type: Infantry
Unit Size: 6 Models
Weapons: Rending Claws, Scything Talons
Special Rules:
- Fleet
- Move Through Cover
- Brood Telepathy (see above)
- Hidden Threat: The Purestrain Brood MUST be placed in Reserve during Deployment, and enter play using the Deep Strike rules. Once they arrive, they receive a 5+ Cover Save, even in the open, until the start of the following Cult turn.


change log:
- points costs added for VP purposes
- Pinning Test added when Magus dies
- removed Brood Telepathy to save confusion (no Instinctive Behaviour anyway)

im still considering giving some sort of boost to a unit lead by the Magus when in CC (to represent them doing anything to protect him). Fearless? FNP? Counter Attack? Prefered Enemy?

thoughts?

cheers :)

~ Tim
8O :D OMG - Im a Dad - of THREE!! :D 8O
:) I am "LMTRK" on The Wizards Community and MTG Salvation
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Postby WolflordHavoc » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:50 pm

Hello

Been asked to have a look by MattG

Comments:

Jinx

"How about 'Confound' or 'Confuse' or keep it as 'Jinx' - if cast then the 'unit' or 'vehicle' suffers the effect of being Pinning/Stunned unless it passes a basic LD test (even if its fearless!!) - as the Squad/Crew members of that unit begin to argue and bicker and fight each other. Vehicles use the Armies racial LD value (i.e. 7 for Guard, 8 for marines etc) - Rites of battle and Comm links etc can modify this value (the officer reminds the men of their duty etc) – this is slightly more powerful than you had intended but given that it might not work offsets this"

The Hive Mind Commands It!

"How about the power (used in the shooting phase) in addition to regrouping a fleeing squad - it can instead be used on a 'non- fleeing squad' and this unit (instead of shooting) gains the fleet of foot skill for that turn (can not be of benefit to Genestealers)"

The other things I wanted to mention were the 2 principle weapons

Heavy Stubber and Rocket launcher.

I think these should stay as general 'heavy weapons' as per their normal rules rather than becoming Assault weapons (Making them Assault weapons is too powerful IMO and I like to have weapons with a precedent). In addition to this I would add Demo Charges which to my way of thinking are relatively easy to build for a 'militia' – I am even thinking Suicide bomber but I like to keep rule as simple as possible). Certainly I would not think that militia would have weapons that are ‘better’ than the Imperial Guard. The Fact that you have a scout move with them makes the unit effective. If you want a ‘LMG/SAW’ style weapon then can I suggest a Light Stubber that ‘counts as’ a Storm Bolter (purist will argue that the AP of a Storm bolter is better than a Heavy Stubber!!).

And the ‘Anti Tank’ squad comes with 3 Standard Missile Launchers (R48” heavy 1)
And may instead become a demo squad, replacing the 3 missile launchers with Demo Charges. Again with their MTC and scout ability you either have a well placed Anti Tank squad or a fast moving unit capable of destroying anything on the board (well anything that it can get within 6” of).

Well that’s my half pennies worth

Good effort BTW
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Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:50 pm

WolflordHavoc wrote:Hello

Been asked to have a look by MattG

cheers mate :)

WolflordHavoc wrote:"How about 'Confound' or 'Confuse' or keep it as 'Jinx' - if cast then the 'unit' or 'vehicle' suffers the effect of being Pinning/Stunned unless it passes a basic LD test (even if its fearless!!) - as the Squad/Crew members of that unit begin to argue and bicker and fight each other.

im basing it off the psy power in the Space Hulk (Vengeance of the BA) Playstation/PC game. when the Magus/Patriarch cast it, and you tried to shoot at them, your shots almost all went wide of their mark (only way i found around it was to pour extra firepower into them, so something eventually hit). as 4th ed doesnt use to-hit mods, re-rolling hits seemed the best way to do it. i also like how its kinda like the opposite to Guide. :twisted:

its meant to be a bit like a machine curse/bad luck spell/distraction.

WolflordHavoc wrote:The Hive Mind Commands It!

"How about the power (used in the shooting phase) in addition to regrouping a fleeing squad - it can instead be used on a 'non- fleeing squad' and this unit (instead of shooting) gains the fleet of foot skill for that turn (can not be of benefit to Genestealers)"

i was thinking of dropping this, actually (see revised list). instead i wanted some sort of "protect the Magus" rule.

WolflordHavoc wrote:Heavy Stubber and Rocket launcher.

I think these should stay as general 'heavy weapons' as per their normal rules rather than becoming Assault weapons (Making them Assault weapons is too powerful IMO and I like to have weapons with a precedent).

i was under the impression (and Dan can correct me if im wrong) that the Heavy Stubber was an Assault weapon in the DKOK list?
and the Rocket Launcher (not Missile Launcher) was based on the Ork Rokkit Launcha (which is also Assault) - its meant to be a homemade weapon.

i thought the limited number of weapons with medium Range (24") and very poor BS (of 2) would help balance out them being Assault weapons. even the Orks have better shooting than the Broodbrothers. :P

WolflordHavoc wrote:In addition to this I would add Demo Charges which to my way of thinking are relatively easy to build for a 'militia'

Demo Charges are out, as there is no Ordnance allowed in CP. :(

i did give the Anti Tank squad Kraks though.

WolflordHavoc wrote:Certainly I would not think that militia would have weapons that are ‘better’ than the Imperial Guard.

well... i made them equal to/worse than the Ork equivalents. compared to the Heavy Bolter, the Heavy Stubber loses on Range, Strength, and AP, and compared to a Missile Launcher the Rocket Launcher loses on versatility (no Frags) and range - and they both lose out in terms of the BS of the firer (compared to basic Guardsmen). all they have going for them is mobility (and when they do move, the Lasguns in their units are less likely to be in range as well).

WolflordHavoc wrote:If you want a ‘LMG/SAW’ style weapon then can I suggest a Light Stubber that ‘counts as’ a Storm Bolter (purist will argue that the AP of a Storm bolter is better than a Heavy Stubber!!).

well it basically is a Storm Bolter, but with worse AP and one more shot (at BS2). if i was going to reduce the number of shots, i probably wouldnt have given them such poor BS. ;)

by comparison, the Ork Big Shoota is also Assault 3 (BS2), but has better Range, Strength and AP.

WolflordHavoc wrote:And the ‘Anti Tank’ squad comes with 3 Standard Missile Launchers (R48” heavy 1)

long range firepower isnt something i imagined when i envisioned them fighting. and proper Missile Launchers would be too... well made (they havent raided any PDF armouries or anything, yet).

how about dropping the Rocket Launchers down to S7? (maybe even AP4 too?)

i dont want them to just be Grenade Launchers (especially with poor BS) - im using these in other lists anyway (PDF & Ash Nomads using C: IG and Arbites & AdMech using C: WH).

having better Strength (and maybe AP too?) than Krak Grenades would balance not being able to choose to fire Frags, IMO, and make them a specialised anti-tank unit (while still not being brilliant at it, even at CP level). im concerned that if i do drop the AP (to 4) then they will really struggle against MEQs at range, although dropping the Strength (to 7) wouldnt be too bad (still ID T3, still Penetrate a Chimera on a 6).

remember, they will only score 1 hit on average per turn.

what do you say:
Rocket Launcher R:24" S7 AP3 Assault 1 (BS2)
:?:

alternatively, i could give them S6 and Tank Hunter (to represent the fact that they will gladly risk their lives to get the perfect shot)... but i dont think that will make a difference at CP level (still IDs T3, still wounds T4 on a 2+).

either way, this is still making them worse than Ork Rokkit Launchas, though...

WolflordHavoc wrote:Well that’s my half pennies worth

Good effort BTW

cheers :D

do you fancy giving them a spin on the tabletop?

~ Tim
8O :D OMG - Im a Dad - of THREE!! :D 8O
:) I am "LMTRK" on The Wizards Community and MTG Salvation
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Postby mattjgilbert » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:05 am

I'm sure we can have a go soon. We've both been painting more than playing so it'll be good to roll some dice :)
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Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:10 am

cheers guys - that would be sweet! :)

thanks!

~ Tim
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:) I am "LMTRK" on The Wizards Community and MTG Salvation
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5th ed Updates

Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:34 am

hey all

now that 5th ed is out, i think its time to update my Genestealer Cult's rules (see latest revision here), and i would appreciate your help. :)

here are my initial thoughts:

- DS & Run for Stealers: i need to update their Hidden Threat rule so that:
a) it doesnt apply if they Run
b) it notes that it can be improved by Going To Ground.

- Scouts and Outflank: im thinking of modifying the Home Turf rule to specify that the units cannot make outflanking moves (this was never the intention of the rule).

- ID immunity for the Magus: i need to change the wording of the Psychic Sheild rule so that it uses the Eternal Warrior USR.

can you think of anything else that needs to be updated for 5th ed?

cheers :)

~ Tim
p.s. as a little treat, here is my OOP Genestealer Cult collection as it currently stands (my latest Hybrid arrived yesterday):

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(not pictured are my BFM 'Stealers and the various generic arms and weapons i have collected to use with the models)
i now have all the clawed Hybrids that i need, although im still on the look-out for 3 more non-clawed ones.
the Familiars will probably be used for objective markers.
cheers!
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Postby mattjgilbert » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:26 pm

I never did get round to playtesting the original list!. Maybe we could try this one at WHW?
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Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:30 pm

mattjgilbert wrote:I never did get round to playtesting the original list!. Maybe we could try this one at WHW?

that would be cool, but i wont have any of the models ready by then. if someone can provide suitable proxies, then that could work. :)

~ Tim
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:) I am "LMTRK" on The Wizards Community and MTG Salvation
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Postby mattjgilbert » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:59 pm

What do you need?

I'm sure ruffian will have some!
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Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:05 pm

mattjgilbert wrote:What do you need?

I'm sure ruffian will have some!

LOL i would need everything in the list (im not building any of my Cult until i have collected all the models). basically:

1 x human psyker
10 x humans w/Lasguns, inc. Heavy Stubber & Flamer
6 x humans w/Lasguns, inc. 3 x rockets
10 x humans with Laspistols & CCWs, inc. 5 w/Rending Claws
6 x 'Stealers

i would rather someone else used it though, and then gave me feedback, rather than me using it myself (more likely to spot problems that way than if i used it myself).

if anyone is up for it, please let me know. :)

cheers!

~ Tim
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:) I am "LMTRK" on The Wizards Community and MTG Salvation
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