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SM Scout Hero (from Warseer)

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SM Scout Hero (from Warseer)

Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:28 pm

Hey all :)

http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121635

after reading this thread on Warseer, this is what I came up with:

Scout Master (120 pts)

Statline: SM Captain (with 4+ Armour Save)

Weapons: Storm Bolter/Mastercrafted Sniper Rifle/Power Weapon (Choose one) OR Power Weapon & Space Marine Bike. Bolt Pistol, Frag Grenades, Melta Bombs.

Wargear: Scout Armour (4+ Save), Auspex, Purity Seals.

Special Rules: ATSKNF, Rites of Battle, Infiltrate (on foot) OR Scouts (on Bike), Independant Character, Scout Master & Scout Force.

Scout Master: the Scout Master has the Move Through Cover, Skilled Rider, Acute Senses & Stealth USRs - all these rules are also conferred to any unit of Scouts (inc. Scout Bikers) that he has joined while he remains part of the unit.

Scout Force: only the following units may be taken in an army that includes the Scout Master (all normal options are allowed unless noted otherwise):
HQ: 1 Scout Master (as above)
Elites: 0-1 Tactical Squad (may have a Dedicated Transport, but not a Drop Pod)
Troops: Scout Squads
Fast Attack: Scout Bikers, 0-1 Landspeeder Squadron
Heavy Support: Scout Squads (must swap standard weapons for Sniper Rifles - all other options unchanged)
Allies: None
Traits: None


so what do you think? (ive got no intention of using him, this is just for fun)

cheers :)

~ Tim
Last edited by LordMalekTheRedKnight on Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Spack » Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:35 pm

Might make for an interesting lightweight army :)
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Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:53 pm

Spack wrote:Might make for an interesting lightweight army :)

cheers mate :)

i can see them having a little bit of a problem with AV13+, so Missile Launchers & Melta Bombs will be needed, but they can still take Assault Cannon/Multi-meltas on the Speeders as well as a Lascannon in the Tac Squad (along w/Lascannon Razorback & HKM), if they want it.

i was also thinking of giving the Landspeeders the option of having Scout crew (for free), making them Open-topped but giving them the Scouts USR. this would look cool, but im not sure on the fluff - can only Power Armoured Marines crew Speeders? :?:

it would certainly feel right in Escalation...

cheers :)

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Postby ruffian4 » Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:31 pm

Scouts in an all scout force are fiercely proud of their achievements.
With the lack of a veteran cadre, there is serious competition for percieved rank. They strive to impress the tactical brethren with youthfull vigour.

As such each scout that masters a usr, has a device emblazoned upon his armour to depict his sucess.

The Scout master himself, is often seen equipped with an ancient protective device similar in function to a refactor field.
It is thought that this archaic armour has its roots in the pre technological "gorget" throat pieces and are as decorative as practical.

Why these devices are known as "woggles" is lost to the sands of time...
Last edited by ruffian4 on Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:13 pm

ROFLOL. :rofl cheers mate :)

now... now that ive picked myself up off the floor... any comments on the rules themselves? ;)

cheers :P

~ Tim
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Postby Culven » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:32 pm

I like the rules, some playtesting will determine whether it is balanced.

One thing I would like to see is the Tactical Marines being stuck in the Scout Squads as mentors, teaching the Scouts, rather than as a separate unit. Some option would be needed to have the Tactical Battle Brother fit with the role of their Scout Squad.

I imagine that if the Chapter fielded several of their Scout squads together, they would want someone to look after them. After all, they are the future of the Chapter.
Last edited by Culven on Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:42 pm

Culven wrote:I like the rules, some playtesting will determine whether it is balanced.

cheers. :)
i erred on the side of caution with the points cost - if anything, he should probably be a little cheaper (10-20 pts). hes got no Inv Save, for a start - not even in CC...

Culven wrote:One thing I would like to see is the Tactical Marines being stuck in the Scout Squads as mentors, teaching the Scouts, rather than as a separate unit. Some option would be needed to have the Tactical Battle Brother fit with the role of their Scout Squad.

the idea behind that squad was that they are the lastest scouts to be promoted to full Marines, and have yet to be assigned to roles elsewhere in the chapter (or havent been picked up yet, etc). compared to the Scouts they are "Elites", but really they are very basic by Marine standards (hence no Infiltrate etc).

Culven wrote:I imagine that if the Chapter fielded several of their Scout squads together, they would want someone to look after them. After all, they are the future of the Chapter.

well that is the Scout Master's role (which is why he is at his best when leading a unit of Scouts and teaching them by example - and also why he doesnt have a Retinue, which allows him to move through the army demonstrating different skills to the units).

i suppose another route to go down would be to take an Infiltrating Command Squad w/Captain all in Power Armour (to represent the veteran Marines who oversee the training), but you can do that sort of thing with the regular codex, so wheres the fun in that? :P

cheers

~ Tim
p.s. any thoughts on Scout Speeders?
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Postby ruffian4 » Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:37 pm

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:p.s. any thoughts on Scout Speeders?

As far as the power armour fluff is concerned, can't hep there.

But if you are open to other suggestions...

A while back, I wrote a codex and sent it in to gw.
In response I recieved a "standardised response", (it was quite amusing, mentioning the attempts of "servitor dozers" to clear the back logs) from andy chambers (nice guy, horrible bike leathers).

But, it had a ps, handwritten by gayham mcneil.

I have lost the originals of this stuff (with my old computer).

But, it did contain some stuff for a "scout" version of the land speeder.

They had silent running engines. This allowed them to deploy in missions that prohibit vehicles, but limited them to 12" move (otherwise the "stealth" capacity was lost).

They could lay booby traps as per the bgb.

They also had "gun camera's", that when they scouted out an enemy deployment, could detect hidden deployment on a 6, forcing the models to be deployed.

Hope that's food for thought.

I like the sound of the army...maybe you should proxy it and see how it goes...
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Postby mattjgilbert » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:04 pm

How about altering the heavy choices a little? Something to give a little more punch/support but not go over the top.

Heavy Support: 0-2 Scout Squads (must swap standard weapons for Sniper Rifles - up to 2 models may take either a heavy bolter or a missile launcher*)
0-1 Whirlwind with Incendiary missiles**



*Scouts would probably also be training for positions in devastator squads so allowing up to two heacy weapons in a squad represents them learning how to lay down supporting fire.

**I think that's the missile which give no cover saves - fitting for long range support and blasting enemy scouts and troops in forward positions out of cover for the scouts to then pick off.


As for having marines mentor scout squads, could you split the tactical squad up somehow by assigning one to each scout squad you have?

edit...not sure why this post is formatted badly...?
Last edited by mattjgilbert on Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:18 pm

mattjgilbert wrote:How about altering the heavy choices a little? Something to give a little more punch/support but not go over the top.

Heavy Support: 0-2 Scout Squads (must swap standard weapons for Sniper Rifles - up to 2 models may take either a heavy bolter or a missile launcher*)
0-1 Whirlwind with Incendiary missiles**

i wanted to avoid too many clanking vehicles slowing them down/giving their position away - they are meant to be a Scouting force afterall (theres also the issue of Escalation - a Whirlwind wouldnt get to fire until at least the 3rd turn). out of all the HS tanks in the codex, the Whirlwind does fit the theme best, although im not sure if they need it (they already have good anti-infantry firepower and the mobility to hunt hidden enemies).

as to "Dev Scouts", i wanted to stick to units that were already possible in the standard list (with restrictions and limits rather than extra options) - otherwise it could be argued that such units should also be appearing in standard SM forces. with the possibility of putting a Heavy Weapon in every (Infantry) unit, and without needing 10 men in a squad to do so, i don think its too bad as it is. i figured they would only really be used in games up to 1000-1500 pts, too.

cheers for the replies guys :)

~ Tim
p.s. oh and il go back and Edit my original post to exclude Drop Pods as Transports for the Tac Squad...
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Postby Kyrolon » Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:27 am

Tim,

How about adding an Orbital Barrage type thing to the Heavy Support section? The plan for a scout force on initial contact with the enemy would be to call for fire before engaging themsleves. You could represent this with the Orbital Bombardment from the DH (?) codex, or the old Fighta Bommer rules from the now defunct speed freaks list in Codex Armageddon, or even the preliminary bombardment rules from the scenarios section of the BGB.

As for the scout speeders...how about this,

Scout land speeder,
AV10,10,10
Open Topped
Scout USR(instead of Deep Strike)
Armed with Hvy Bolter or Multi Melta or Hvy Flamer&Storm Bolter

Points Cost: 55

Here is my reasoning on all of this.

The speeder doesn't deep strike as it approaches the battle from ground level in its recon role rather than the "death from above" style of the regular Land Speeder.

Also, since it is a scout variant, they do not receive the second weapon option. The two more expensive/rare weapons (TL ML and AC) are reserved for the regular line speeder squadrons. If you really wanted to depart from the basics you could also give the scout speeders (only) something like a Tau markerlight as an upgrade (10pts?).

Finally, you have allies listed as a no, but what if you allowed allies from the regular marine list that MUST start in reserve regardless of mission to represent the scouts getting support from a Battle Company.

Just my $0.02,

The "other" Dan

BTW Tim, your version of the scout master is a lot more reasonable than the guy with a gatling sniper rifle in the original Warseer thread. :lol:
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Postby Ben » Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:10 am

I would like to have super snipers. Instead of his idea of a triple barreled sniper rifle how about can take vindicares as Elites?
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Postby Spack » Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:37 am

mattjgilbert wrote:edit...not sure why this post is formatted badly...?


The quote in ruffian4's signature got messed up, fixed now.
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Postby mattjgilbert » Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:33 am

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:i wanted to avoid too many clanking vehicles slowing them down/giving their position away
it's for support on front line assaults not part of a sneaky kill team!
LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:- they are meant to be a Scouting force afterall
they don't just do "scouting" missions though
LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote: (theres also the issue of Escalation - a Whirlwind wouldnt get to fire until at least the 3rd turn)
Depends on how often you play escalation :wink:
LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:as to "Dev Scouts", i wanted to stick to units that were already possible in the standard list (with restrictions and limits rather than extra options)
like the commander and the scout landspeeder ;)
LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote: - otherwise it could be argued that such units should also be appearing in standard SM forces.
why? this is your personal made up list!
LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:cheers for the replies guys :)
That's OK, sorry for being an argumentative sod ;)
Last edited by mattjgilbert on Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby killmaimburn » Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:02 pm

Heavy I'd add space marine bikes\attack bikes 0-1.
Basically I reckon to get a larger force and not cripple the FOC you'll need to do a clever split. e.g. speeder with heavy bolter= FA (more scouty- maybe comes with an auspex), tornado = heavy support.

Ben wrote:I would like to have super snipers. Instead of his idea of a triple barreled sniper rifle how about can take vindicares as Elites?
I'd agree 0-1 sniper chapter leader as elite(or an alternate HQ).
For the master fella that master crafted snipy thing is a bit, well, erm, not my cup of tea, how about he is like an eldar pathfinder .
Guard at one point had access to speeders didn't they? If they did I reckon that junior smurfs would get driving lessons occasionally.
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