Hello All

Im hoping that you will be able to solve an issue I have with the reserve rules.
I have a hypothetical Necron List as follows :

HQ 1 Lord
Troop choice with Nightscythe "Dedicated Transport" (Flyer)
Troop choice with Nightscythe "Dedicated Transport" (Flyer)
Troop choice on foot.
1X Heavy Support

Im looking at the Reserve rules and trying to determine what is the minimum number of models that I can legally deploy at the start of the game.
The way I read it is the dedicated transports and the troops within are flyers so must always start in reserve. I want the HQ choice to go with one of these troop choices so he also no longer counts.
That leaves me with 2 Units at least half must be deployed so do you agree that this means I only need to deploy either the third troop choice or the Heavy Support choice?
Ive had 2 opposing opinions so far, both of which make sense so Im hoping that one will prevail and solve this dilema.

Thanks

You know my thoughts easter bunny!

It's actually in the book.
pg 124 first paragraph under preparing reserves:

A unit and it's dedicated transport are counted as a single unit for these purposes. Independant Characters are also counted as a single unit regardless ofwhether they have joined another unit or not

So in that list you have 3 units that do not have to start in reserve.
2 of which can be chosen not to deploy (as you always round up - same paragraph).

You start with 1 unit on tha table

I agree with lostandthedamned, the net result for you is the same though. You thought you had 2 units where at least 1 must be deployed, and as latd said you actually have 3 units, but again only 1 must be deployed.

Thanks guys.

A slight aside, perhaps, but what do you make of the way a winged greater daemon (monstrous flying creature) arrives from reserves???

Don't understand the question ruffian.

Do you mean the way they arrive?

Hello there old bean! How art thou?

Flying montrosities get to choose how they move, gliding or swooping but they always deep strike.
You can't move after ds but must if you swoop.
There isn't any kind of "cruising speed" type get out clause, so it seems you can only glide in.

ruffian4 wrote: Hello there old bean! How art thou?

Very well, thanks mate! Hope you and yours are doing well also.

ruffian4 wrote:Flying montrosities get to choose how they move, gliding or swooping but they always deep strike.
You can't move after ds but must if you swoop.
There isn't any kind of "cruising speed" type get out clause, so it seems you can only glide in.

It's as clear as the first sentence of the second paragraph of the Deep Strike rule, and I quote;

"Some units that must arrive by Deep Strike." Page 36.

As far as arriving via deep strike and a required move that you must make even though the deep strike rules say you can't move any further, there is the last paragraph in the right hand column on page 124;

"If a unit has a special rule forcing it to move in a specific direction or that could stop it from moving, the rule is ignored in the phase when it arrives from reserve."

I would say that this rule would let the flying monstrous creature arrive via deep strike in swoop mode but not have to complete the swoop move.

But where does it say flying monstrous creatures can only arrive from reserve via deep stike? I missed that somehow.

timewizard wrote:"If a unit has a special rule forcing it to move in a specific direction or that could stop it from moving, the rule is ignored in the phase when it arrives from reserve."

I think that deep strike doesn't force you to move in a specific direction, even though you have to maintain facing, though you could argue that swooping can only change direction at the start of its move*.
Nor does it actually stop you from moving, but rather moving any further.

If this wasn't the case, all deep strikers could invoke this rule to allow them to actually move after arriving.

timewizard wrote:But where does it say flying monstrous creatures can only arrive from reserve via deep stike? I missed that somehow.

I asked in regards to codex daemons (bloodthirster).


*Which goes back to sanity blasting when did the deep striker "start its move" = when you place the model = the only time you can determine facing??? = movement through stuff by scattering AGAIN!!!

Well, first, the bloodthirster is jump infantry so it can arrive via deep strike, not must.

So one step at a time. If the bloodthirster is going to arrive from reserves normally, i.e. from the table edge, then you would use the rules under deployment on page 49 and the bloodthirster would arrive in either Swoop or Glide mode. You would then abide by the relevant rules for ither mode.

If however, you elect to have the bloodthirster arrive via deep strike, then it would abide by those rules, and it would abide by the relevant portions of the rule.

In either case, the MC would not move any further after it arrived as per the deep strike rules, you would determine its facing when it arrives. The arriving MC would be free to fire up to 2 weapons as normal. The difference between whether it is swooping or cliding would come into play if the bloodletter is fired at.

If it is in swoop mode, it will only be fired at by snap shots (unless the firer has skyfire) and can elect to dive, including all the parts of that rule.

I think that's the only way to handle it.

timewizard wrote:Well, first, the bloodthirster is jump infantry so it can arrive via deep strike, not must.

Its a daemon though, it must arrive via ds and is a flying monstrous creature.

timewizard wrote:The difference between whether it is swooping or cliding would come into play if the bloodletter is fired at.

But, I need to know what mode I am in before that (interceptor fire exception).
For eg, dangerous terrain.
I also need to know how far I can run, should I want to.

I'm having problems with the idea that if you do this (deep strike) then you can't do that (move further), while I know I moved, but I can't prove how far (must move at least 12") = I don't have the option to begin with.

ruffian4 wrote: Its a daemon though, it must arrive via ds and is a flying monstrous creature.

Sorry ruffian! Had to re-read the codex, but right you are!

ruffian4 wrote:But, I need to know what mode I am in before that (interceptor fire exception).
For eg, dangerous terrain.
I also need to know how far I can run, should I want to.

I'm having problems with the idea that if you do this (deep strike) then you can't do that (move further), while I know I moved, but I can't prove how far (must move at least 12") = I don't have the option to begin with.

Ahh, but you do. The option is yours.
Page 49, under 'deployment', "If a Flying Monstrous Creature is kept as reserve then as soon as it enters play, you must declare whether it is in Swoop or Glide Mode." {emphasis mine}

So when the bloodletter deep strikes in, and after it has done so successfully or suffered a mishap, you declare whether it is in glide or swoop mode. I will presume that you will make this decision based on the final location where the bloodletter has deployed. But whatever the decision, you will have to live with that choice until the creatures next Movement phase.

It would appear that declaring which mode you are in does not rely on the distance moved (as per normal movement) when the creature deep strikes in.

Hope this helps clear it up.

@TW I don't think page 49 is relevent, I believe it refers to IF the flying mc enters from reserve via one of the flying modes, obviously the core rules have to consider other flying MC that don't have to DS as part of there codex rules.

In the case of the thirster I believe you DS it as per the DS rule the fact it can fly is irrelevant at this point but comes into play in its following movement phase. On the turn it arrives follow all the DS rules inc that it counts as moving at cruising speed.

"Counts as moving at cruising speed" is not the same as "has moved at cruising speed" .

So what stops you declaring you are swooping. You may have moved more than 18" but you only count as moved 12" for other purposes such as shooting mainly.