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Assault: charge moves (charge sub phase?)

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Assault: charge moves (charge sub phase?)

Postby KInG » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:19 pm

Move closest to closest as always. (As old rules), then move models, keeping coherency, and contacting new bases, or within 2" if you can't reach a new one.

I think that's what it says, from memory, no rb to hand.

Question that came up in mine and bane's last game... Here's the scenario:

Bloodthirster and 10 flesh hounds about to multi charge a tactical squad of 5 men. I declare hounds will go first followed by the BT. The hounds move in, but because there are so many I'm finding it hard to leave a gap for the BT. So I move some hounds indirectly around the back of the combat, because they rolled far enough and because all tactical bases now have a dog already in base to base. These hounds all move one at a time keeping coherency when they reach their new position.

Is this wrong?
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Re: Assault: charge moves (charge sub phase?)

Postby BANE » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:46 pm

It was more that you moved them round the back to leave space for the BT base to get B2B with the tacs.
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Re: Assault: charge moves (charge sub phase?)

Postby KInG » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:48 pm

I said that I thought. :)
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PostThis post was deleted by KInG on Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:48 pm.

Re: Assault: charge moves (charge sub phase?)

Postby ruffian4 » Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:51 pm

Sounds like the point of discussion is p21, second bullet.
Need to re-jig some assumptions.
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Re: Assault: charge moves (charge sub phase?)

Postby timewizard » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:33 pm

That would be the key point ruffian.

@KInG and BANE - The first model must be the one closest to the enemy unit and must move into contact with the closest enemy model by the shortest possible route.

After that, each charging model is moved into the combat. They can only move as far as their charge distance, and must get in base contact with an enemy model not already in base contact with another charging model.

If this can be done by "running" around the enemy unit and getting into base contact with a model in the rear of the unit, but still following bullet point 2, that is a legal charging move. But remember that if there are no enemy models left that are not in base contact with a charging model, then the next charging model must move into base contact with an enemy model already in base contact with a charging model.

I would like to see how the models were set up on the board at the start of and during the charge because I can't see how you could get 10 flesh hounds into base contact with 5 marines following the second bullet point, and yet still leave sufficient space for the Bloodthirster to get into base contact with the enemy.

Oh, and you did roll the charge move for the flesh hounds and the Bloodthirster separately I presume?
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Re: Assault: charge moves (charge sub phase?)

Postby KInG » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:48 pm

Yes rolled separately.

There may have been only 8 left by the time I charged, I don't recall exactly but I can take some pictures of what I did.

My next question would then be can you avoid terrain in this way and if not, once realised do you then roll a third D6 for charging through cover.
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Re: Assault: charge moves (charge sub phase?)

Postby timewizard » Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:02 pm

You can try your best to avoid terrain. There are a lot of variables.

The first is easy, the first model, the one closest to the enemy, contacts the closest model by the shortest route. If it has to move through difficult terrain, then you must test. Overstating the obvious, I know, just want to be clear.

Now the rest of the models move. Again, remember the requirements;

The charging model must move into base contact with an enemy model not already in base contact with a charging model.

If all the enemy models are already in base contact with a charging model, the next charging model must move into base contact with a model already in base contact with a charging model.

Now in making these moves, you can move the charging models (after the first charging model) in any order you want. Careful moving could certainly result in avoiding moving through difficult terrain. But of course if any charging model has to move through difficult terrain, then the entire charging unit could have it's charge move reduced. This could lead to the charge failing, in which case the assault fails and all the charging models could not move and would have to remain where they were. This might be difficult to do if most of the charging models have already been moved.

There are a few ways to handle that. One is to move the models back based on memory, getting them back to where you thought they were.
Another is, if there is difficult terrain near the assault and there is a possibility it could come into play, you could put some spare bases or extra dice where the assaulting models started in case it fails. That's the way (marking the positions with dice) that I use and it works well.

So, sorry for the long post, but to answer your question, if during the assault, you find that your charging unit has to move through difficult terrain, you would then have to roll 3 dice, take the 2 lowest, and use that instead of the initial 2 dice charge move you rolled. This could of course result in the assault failing.
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Re: Assault: charge moves (charge sub phase?)

Postby ruffian4 » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:38 pm

I would like to defer to tomorrow, when hopefully I can have a proper look at the book.
At the moment, I don't think you (king) did anything wrong, but it grates somewhere.
Not sure, perhaps edition slip.
Will get back asap.
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Re: Assault: charge moves (charge sub phase?)

Postby timewizard » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:44 pm

I agree that at first blush, it doesn't look like KInG did anything wrong.

My only question is how did he maneuver the flesh hounds to comply with bullet point 2 yet still have sufficient space to get the BT in base contact?
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Re: Assault: charge moves (charge sub phase?)

Postby ruffian4 » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:58 pm

You know what, I am thinking its bullet point 3 now.
Brain is not working, will redeploy tomorrow.
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Re: Assault: charge moves (charge sub phase?)

Postby timewizard » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:09 pm

Bullet point 3 just says if the charging model can't reach any enemy models it just has to move within 2" of a charging model already in base contact.

The only way for this to happen is if:
1-the model was outside of the charging distance
2-therre was no room to fit the base of the charging model between the bases of other charging models in base contact
3-the only way to get into base contact would be through impassable terrain

In (2), if there was no room for the fleshhound's base, there would certainly be no room for the BT's base.

(1) and (3) are possibilities however. In (1), the BT may have rolled a higher charge distance than the fleshhounds allowing it to get into base contact that was out of the hounds range.
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Re: Assault: charge moves (charge sub phase?)

Postby KInG » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:39 pm

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Re: Assault: charge moves (charge sub phase?)

Postby KInG » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:43 pm

ffs help me someone.. Dan sort this shit out please.. why me lol

All I want it to be able to post a message on the board. If I wanna include a piccie then just link to it from my HD and the site takes it and adds it to my post... this is some long ass shit to post images :(

HELP ME!!! :(
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Re: Assault: charge moves (charge sub phase?)

Postby KInG » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:45 pm

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