Hey guys. I was reading the rules for chaos chosen marines and just wanted to check that im reading it right. It says i can upgrade one marine with a heavy or special weapon then it goes on to say i can upgrade a further 4 marines with special weapons. Basically this means i can build 5 models with special weapons? Even the champion can take a special weapon or is it champion or special weapon? Just not sure why the 1 guy and the 4 guys are in 2 different listings.

Cool. Thought i had read it right just wanted to be sure. Cheers mate.

5 chosen 5 melta rhino
5 chosen 5 melta rhino
5 chosen 5 melta rhino
5 havoc 4 melta rhino
5 havoc 4 melta rhino
5 havoc 4 melta rhino
975 points of not quite as good as mech vets.

Chosen are a fiddly thing, best configured for a one shot deal that might work( normally melta because plas costs so much,flamers are v situational in mech edition), otherwise they get pricey.. but then your relying on the 5th ed failure (outflank) and the chaos failure (metal boxxxes) (not scoring, lower model count, take the nice slots,).. Some people use 5 man just sat on the board to help deploy stuff and home in, but its just 5 meq, they can't make assault, only a silly opponent would be in double dice melta, they can't set up in DOW and and and and..
(same view said a different way by others http://www.3plusplus.net/2011/04/chaos- ... lites.html )

Bear in mind said same vets can take power weapons et al - try 5 with LC's and mark of Khorne....... Juicy, if expensive. Also MOK and power fists.

Hnnnngggghh, Let me guess you give them MOK so that they have more than 1 attack when they are charged (veterans of 1000,1000 campaigns my bum) ..
The veterans in the chaos book are the archetypal "not as good as X" imbalance that makes the book rubbish.(after comparing it to the bells and whistles of later codex design methods)

Power weapons?
5 chosen with power weapons because they work with bolt pistols take them up to 2 attacks (finally), might infiltrate if game allows (or might turn up the wrong side of the board) 150
5 terminators in tactical Imma mofoing dreadnought kick ass armour, with (2base) power weapons and twinlinked versions of noobchamps guns, may deepstrike anywhere in any game, 150.

Chosen might overkill a unit, with a fine hand... but most of the list building excitement of "Ohh I could..."dies away after it hits the table.

killmaimburn wrote:...Let me guess you give them MOK so that they have more than 1 attack when they are charged (veterans of 1000,1000 campaigns my bum) .....

Too true - but then they are an older dex. MAYBE there may be some continuity with the newer marine dexes sternguard/vanguard/deathcompany vetspam in the newer books when they get their new dex. We pray to the gods in hope.

To be honest with you fellas alot of this is over my head. Whilst i give it a go every now and then i try and avoid all the science and maths behind this game. My weakness (apart from being a poor 40k player) is that i normally like to field units i like the sound of or if i like the paticuler model which more often or not dosent make a "killer list" but when i do manage the win i tend to enjoy it more. Another thing ive noticed is that everyone has an opinion (which they are more then entitled to) but it makes it hard when asking for advice because people will either love a unit or hate them. Which is mostly why i pick models and units i like the sound of. Dont always work but hey! Thats all part of the fun. To be honest i prefer a hard fought game rather then a whitewash (especially when im on the recieving end of it lol.) Maybe if i tried my hand at a tournament i would develop a more conpetitive streak. Who knows.

Honestly, if you play Khorne CSM for fluff & want them to play like they are represented in the fluff then go for for the Space Wolves codex. This fits Khorne far better than Codex CSM (especially if you are harking back to the second ed "martial prowess" element of khorne rather than the kiddified "frothing madmen" of 3rd onwards - did I just call frothing admen kiddified, why yes I did! How queer...). For "frothing madmen" then BA might be a good call too...

Codex CSM provides very little for CSM that you can't get for better elsewhere (only Oblits & daemon engines are hard to represent).

That's my take anyway. And outside the internetz, noone will hate you, honest...

I'm posting this mostly because its so slow around here I'm using any excuse to type, more than anything else.
I hope it encourages much robust rebuttalling, in fact I demand at least one good hard rebuttalling before teatime.

Fred wrote:it makes it hard when asking for advice because people will either love a unit or hate them. .

Fred wrote: Whilst i give it a go every now and then i try and avoid all the science and maths behind this game. .

When asking for advice for ingame, ask people who have played a billion games and or understand the science and maths behind the game... simples (tricky bit is working out whose pretending both of those things)

Fred wrote: To be honest i prefer a hard fought game rather then a whitewash

Aww don't fall into the fallacy that just because I know that possessed/legion of the damned are a skanky option compared to the 3 things that do exactly the same better within the same codex means I only ever hit my opponents over the head with a sledgehammer that goes to the 10th decimal place.A balanced game that engages my mind is always much more fulfilling+fun.

Last night I had a balanced all comers demons list (which had just come out of 11 months in storage)come out, my opponents list (returning after a year off the game had only played the game once in 18 months) he'd taken on board some tips I'd given him when I watched his previous battle, his list was tighter (e.g. not every piece of wargear on everything)but he had a naked smurf captain because he'd run out of points and got lost/bored, I suggested we call it a librarian with gate and nullzone.
Game was balanced went back and forth,nothing killer,nothing dumb-fun. Went 7-8 on killpoints turn 7 .

I would raise the potential pitfalls in some of your assertions
Taking chosen because you like the model and then taking 5 special weapons as statements don’t blend well, as a (primarily) 4th ed building technique this was called min-maxing.
Further I would question just taking models you like,not only is it a subjective criteria,but GW knows about ‘shiny’ and with the exception of possessed and a couple of other rare things, the rule is always to win games by buying the (new) pretty models (chaos termies sculpted at same time as codex,vendettas+ valkiries hydras in every list redefined guard templates- and outshone everything pointed the same in other codexs,breadknife and stormraven being pretty much all the fast stuff in grey knights codex) in fact a rare web phenomena/but a strong real world presence are people who bought crap, can’t be bothered with the nicer(and newer) models and still try to make them work (despite the rules-led trends against them) Good example people playing footslog old crons under new dex (there is a list some web guy wrote which I itch to play against), bad example devastator squad as sold with one of each weapon (jack of all trades master of nothing..of course that might be what your doing )..

I bring some emotional baggage to these sorts of discussions.("really you don’t say " ) You might not be aware, but forumitus has a particular sect/faction who insist that all things are equally effective and then take deliberately horrendous lists to demand some sort of absolute moral victory in (inevitable) defeat when they play regular normal middle-of-the-road non tourney players..getting tabled before turn3 because someone is being playing masochist isn't fun for the other guy.
Its not the good side of force vs dark, its the other extreme game killing crazy side of the spectrum.Sitting somewhere in the grey is the awesome zone where we all in real life sit

inb4 "other games systems don't do this", off course they do you choose one thing over another in every game I've seen with any options in.

killmaimburn wrote:I bring some emotional baggage to these sorts of discussions.("really you don’t say " ) You might not be aware, but forumitus has a particular sect/faction who insist that all things are equally effective and then take deliberately horrendous lists to demand some sort of absolute moral victory in (inevitable) defeat when they play regular normal middle-of-the-road non tourney players..getting tabled before turn3 because someone is being playing masochist isn't fun for the other guy.
Its not the good side of force vs dark, its the other extreme game killing crazy side of the spectrum.Sitting somewhere in the grey is the awesome zone where we all in real life sit

Cocking cock badger, KMB, I agree with your post! I think we need to spend less time together...

But seriously, I agree most with the above. People asking what is good for a competative army then saying "but I like this unit, not that one, because of the fluff", then balls to you. You asked for an effective list, I gave you the most effective answer. If you don't want that because of your fluff "excuse" then rather than asking a genuine question, you were really after validation of your matyr approach. Gets my goat every damned time.

Not to say that that's what's happening in this case. Just to be clear on that (it's a Warseer thing...)

killmaimburn wrote:inb4 "other games systems don't do this", off course they do you choose one thing over another in every game I've seen with any options in.

You could try Warmach... dammit!

Fred wrote:Just not sure why the 1 guy and the 4 guys are in 2 different listings.

I thought that's ^ what he asked.

Its so you can have 1 heavy and 4 specials/1 special and 4 special close combats/mixture of them.

I'm special.

Whoa whoa whoa. Firstly i never ment to offend anyone or dismiss thier opinions. Maybe what i was trying to say wasnt very clear. Im a fairly newish player in the respect that ive only been playing since 5th ed came out. So when people go on about previous codexs and rule books alot of it is straight over my head. I fnd this place great for new ideas and tactics. My problem is once i get somthing in my head i find it hard to let go even if people are saying its not a very good one or there are better options out there. (just ask my wife. I can be quite a pain somtimes.) Another thing is im quite impatant and want to put models together before i know if they really work. Like i said i never ment to cause any offence and really should learn to read through my posts before submitting. Hope there are no hard feelings. Im a nice guy really.

Whoa whoa whoa. Firstly i never ment to offend anyone or dismiss thier opinions. Maybe what i was trying to say wasnt very clear. Im a fairly newish player in the respect that ive only been playing since 5th ed came out. So when people go on about previous codexs and rule books alot of it is straight over my head. I fnd this place great for new ideas and tactics. My problem is once i get somthing in my head i find it hard to let go even if people are saying its not a very good one or there are better options out there. (just ask my wife. I can be quite a pain somtimes.) Another thing is im quite impatant and want to put models together before i know if they really work. Like i said i never ment to cause any offence and really should learn to read through my posts before submitting. Hope there are no hard feelings. Im a nice guy really.

Sorry. Dont know why this came up twice.