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Couple of rules quiries last night

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Re: Couple of rules quiries last night

Postby timewizard » Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:29 pm

No, your english is fine, mine is probably a bit off!

The fact that they guy with the melta is within 2" of a guy touching the wall, or even touching the wall himself, has no effect on his shooting.

In the picture, if the skimmer is 25% hidden from the majority of the unit it is hidden.

And since it is hidden by the wall of the ruin, it gets a 4+ cover save.

This save is taken again every shot from the unit, regardless of their position within the ruin.

Unless I'm still confusing something.
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Re: Couple of rules quiries last night

Postby KInG » Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:48 pm

no I think we are there now ;)

1. Just to expand on this though for others. Does this happen even if the other potential shooters can't pen the vehicle.

2. And what happens if the player declares he will only shoot the melta.

And another cover save question just came up... Look out sir wounds put onto the nearest model to the character can be placed on models out of range and line of sight. What if the guy is stood in cover and the character wasn't?
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Re: Couple of rules quiries last night

Postby timewizard » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:16 pm

KInG wrote: no I think we are there now ;)

1. Just to expand on this though for others. Does this happen even if the other potential shooters can't pen the vehicle.


No. [quote=Main Rulebook Page 74, bullet point on bottom right page"]If a unit is firing at a vehicle, the vehicle is obscured only if it is 25% hidden from the majority of the firing models that are able to damage the vehicle.[/quote] {emphasis mine}

KInG wrote:2. And what happens if the player declares he will only shoot the melta.


Would be the same as above because cover saves depend on LOS from the firers or the firing models.

KInG wrote:And another cover save question just came up... Look out sir wounds put onto the nearest model to the character can be placed on models out of range and line of sight. What if the guy is stood in cover and the character wasn't?


Then the guy would get a cover save even if the character was not in cover.

Normally, you roll to hit, roll to wound, allocate wounds, and roll saves.

Same for "Look Out, Sir" You roll to hit and wound, you allocate a hit against the character, you roll for "Look Out, Sir", it's successful, you then allocate that wound to another model, then resolve the wound against that model taking any applicable saves.
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Re: Couple of rules quiries last night

Postby KInG » Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:59 pm

you seem to have that one covered straight off this time TW ;) n1 thanks
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Re: Couple of rules quiries last night

Postby timewizard » Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:01 pm

My pleasure mate!
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Re: Couple of rules quiries last night

Postby Angelwing » Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:09 am

right:
p74 vehicles and cover - obscured targets
if a unit is firing at a vehicle, the vehicle is obscured only if it is 25% hidden from the majority of the firing models that are able to damage the vehicle.

in the picture, i would say yes to a cover save as only one guy is able to see the whole thing (guy at window).

also note the last part of the rule. eg if a bolter squad with one missile in it shoots at a landraider, you only determine cover save from the point of view of the missile launcher, not the majority of the unit.


Please also note p18 determining cover saves.

For shooting at non vehicle models, you need to be obscured 25% from the los of only 1 model in the shooting unit.

eg. 5 marines are shooting an ork boy. 4 marines can see him 100%. One marine can only see 75% of the ork boys body. The ork boy gets a cover save from all wounds allocated to him from that marine unit.
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Re: Couple of rules quiries last night

Postby KInG » Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:53 pm

Good points AW. ;)

And if a unit is 3" into area terrain woods. They fire out at guys in the open and nothing else between them, do they get a save?

Do they get one is I'm 2" in or even 1" in. Or do I have to be hanging out the terrain to negotiate the terrain I'm in..
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Re: Couple of rules quiries last night

Postby Angelwing » Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:55 pm

this 1", 2" or 3" stuff got thrown in the bin thankfully. You just need to get your eyes down and check the LoS.
If the area terrain they are standing in is blocking view to the target then the target could well be entitled to a cover save, check the book for which save.

If the area terrain is flat (eg a swamp) the target unit isn't likely to be obscured in any fashion, so no cover save. However: if the target unit shoots back, the unit standing in the flat area terrain gets a cover save even if they can be seen 100%, because its area terrain they are in.

Finally, if in any doubt, give the cover save. Perhaps split the difference eg a contested 5+ cover save could be compromised as a 6+ instead. All this mucking about checking each firing models line of sight, getting eyes poked out on sharp terrain and bickering over 'is the body 25% obscured or not?' gets on my wick. I'd rather just play the game.
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Re: Couple of rules quiries last night

Postby timewizard » Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:36 pm

KInG wrote:Good points AW. ;)

And if a unit is 3" into area terrain woods. They fire out at guys in the open and nothing else between them, do they get a save?

Do they get one is I'm 2" in or even 1" in. Or do I have to be hanging out the terrain to negotiate the terrain I'm in..


As Angelwing said, you don't have to measure how far into the terrain anyone is anymore.

As for a unit firing from within the woods,

Main Rulebook page 102 'Cover Save' wrote:Similarly,if one or more models in a shooting unit have to trace their line of sight through a forest (because they're shooting at a model beyond the forest) then the model being shot benefits from a 5+ cover save.


So if any of the models are in the forest and trace LOS through the forest, the target unit gets the save, even if they're in the open. If all the models in the firing unit were just touching the forest and not firing through it, the target unit would not get a save.

This would also apply if both units were in the open but a model in the firing unit traced LOS across (which would be through) the forest.
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Re: Couple of rules quiries last night

Postby jlong05 » Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:40 pm

KInG wrote:Good points AW. ;)

And if a unit is 3" into area terrain woods. They fire out at guys in the open and nothing else between them, do they get a save?

Do they get one is I'm 2" in or even 1" in. Or do I have to be hanging out the terrain to negotiate the terrain I'm in..


I think if they are 'in' the terrain there is no penalty for shooting out. Maybe there is if they are inside by a certain distance, not sure.
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Re: Couple of rules quiries last night

Postby KInG » Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:18 pm

Seems there is jlong, read TWs post above and that is exactly how I play it. For area terrain woods, which get moved about a lot, I play any shot going through the woods gives a save. I wasn't sure about shooting from within it though, but seems same rules apply. :)

Right that is most of cover saves covered, let's just refer any more people to this thread now for a comprehensive over view. ;)
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