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Deploying ICs in units...when and how?

Discussion of rules in Warhammer 40K - use for existing rules only, for discussing new rules or changes/alternatives use the Rules Development forum

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Re: Deploying ICs in units...when and how?

Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Thu May 20, 2010 6:51 pm

ruffian4 wrote:To make things worse and to add ammo to the nay-sayers, it's a copy/paste from 4th.

Thought so. ;)
(didnt I ask that earlier in the thread?)

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Re: Deploying ICs in units...when and how?

Postby timewizard » Thu May 20, 2010 7:11 pm

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:
ruffian4 wrote:To make things worse and to add ammo to the nay-sayers, it's a copy/paste from 4th.

Thought so. ;)
(didnt I ask that earlier in the thread?)

~ Tim


4th edition said (page 81 under deploy forces; "When deploying an independent character on the table, you may speciy that it starts the game already inside a unit and place it in coherency with it."

So the IC starts the game as a part of the unit by placing the IC in coherency with the unit.

And in 5th we say that an IC may begin the game already with a unit by being deployed in coherency with it.

This is different how?
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Re: Deploying ICs in units...when and how?

Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Thu May 20, 2010 7:14 pm

Im not sure it is.

Was this even possible in 4th ed either?

If you only declare the IC as part of the unit when deploying the IC, and the IC is deploying as an Infiltrator, arent all the non-Infiltrating units already deployed? (wasnt this addressed in one of the 4th ed FAQs?)

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Re: Deploying ICs in units...when and how?

Postby timewizard » Thu May 20, 2010 7:46 pm

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:Im not sure it is.

Was this even possible in 4th ed either?

If you only declare the IC as part of the unit when deploying the IC, and the IC is deploying as an Infiltrator, arent all the non-Infiltrating units already deployed? (wasnt this addressed in one of the 4th ed FAQs?)

~ Tim

No, the 4th ed FAQ only questioned having an IC join a unit, get put into reserve and then roll for arrival, since in 4th ed reserve rules, you rolled for each FOC selection separately. reserves were handled quite differently in 4th ed.

The problem you mentioned is the crux of this discussion. How could I deploy an IC without the infiltrate USR as a part of a unit of infiltrators if I can't deploy them together?
If I deply the IC first, then deploy the infiltrators, they can't be joined because the IC has to move into coherency with a unit to join it, not the other way around.
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Re: Deploying ICs in units...when and how?

Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Thu May 20, 2010 7:59 pm

timewizard wrote:How could I deploy an IC without the infiltrate USR as a part of a unit of infiltrators if I can't deploy them together?

Thats why it was a bad example for the rule on losing USRs. ;)

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Re: Deploying ICs in units...when and how?

Postby timewizard » Thu May 20, 2010 8:31 pm

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:
timewizard wrote:How could I deploy an IC without the infiltrate USR as a part of a unit of infiltrators if I can't deploy them together?

Thats why it was a bad example for the rule on losing USRs. ;)

~ Tim

Quite the contrary, I think it is a perfect example. It shows that what happens when an IC and a unit are joined. Any USRs that either one has have to be taken into consideration and acted upon.


ruffian4 wrote:By the time you deploy infiltraitors, you are deploying units, 1 unit at a time.
Because they (imo) wanted to cut out some dirty tricks/cheating, formalised how ic's etc become joined in reserve by requiring reseves structures, but not in normal deployment.


Just one thing here. By the time I am deploying infiltrators, I have already deployed all my other units (any not in reserve that is) and so has my opponent.

I also don't think you are deploying one unit at a time, you are deploying your force. There's this;
I put down 2 infantry squads, now I start to put down my tanks. After I put one down, I see that I should have the infantry squad about 5" further away. Since I am still deploying my force, I pick the squad up and move them. It is only in the movement phase that I can't go back and move a unit.
Once I have finished and you start deploying your force, it is too late for me to go back and move anyone.
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Re: Deploying ICs in units...when and how?

Postby ruffian4 » Fri May 21, 2010 9:42 am

timewizard wrote:
ruffian4 wrote:By the time you deploy infiltraitors, you are deploying units, 1 unit at a time.
Because they (imo) wanted to cut out some dirty tricks/cheating, formalised how ic's etc become joined in reserve by requiring reseves structures, but not in normal deployment.


Just one thing here. By the time I am deploying infiltrators, I have already deployed all my other units (any not in reserve that is) and so has my opponent.

I also don't think you are deploying one unit at a time, you are deploying your force.

Well, there are two distinct phases in deployment though.
When you deploy your army, you really are deploying en masse, the whole lot (minus some). At this point, there is no problem rearranging stuff.
Once you have finished though, the other guy gets to do the same.

That's it though, set in stone, you can't go back and react to the enemy deployment (unless you have eldrad or something).

When you deploy infiltraitors, you really do deploy individual units.
You may even have to alternate with your oppo, unit by unit.
Consider how it works if both sides have multiple units of infiltraitors.
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Re: Deploying ICs in units...when and how?

Postby timewizard » Fri May 21, 2010 12:52 pm

ruffian4 wrote:
timewizard wrote:I also don't think you are deploying one unit at a time, you are deploying your force.

Well, there are two distinct phases in deployment though.
When you deploy your army, you really are deploying en masse, the whole lot (minus some). At this point, there is no problem rearranging stuff.
Once you have finished though, the other guy gets to do the same.


I agree with this. So if I can rearrange things, would I be able to put a tac squad on the table, put down wome other units, then change my mind and decide to move the squad to the other side of the table or even decide to put them in reserve instead?
Provided I have not as yet finished fielding my army.
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Re: Deploying ICs in units...when and how?

Postby mattjgilbert » Fri May 21, 2010 2:06 pm

timewizard wrote:would I be able to put a tac squad on the table, put down wome other units, then change my mind and decide to move the squad to the other side of the table or even decide to put them in reserve instead?
Provided I have not as yet finished fielding my army.
I've seen this happen in many games. There is nothing stopping you changing your mind as you deploy your army. There are no rules saying you must leave a unit where you originally placed it once you move on to the next one.
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Re: Deploying ICs in units...when and how?

Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Fri May 21, 2010 2:11 pm

If it ever bacame an issue, you couyld even say "None of the positions of my units are final until i say Im done". Its not like 4th ed where you alternated placement with your opponent on a unit by unit basis, and its not Movement, so nothing stops you going back to unit.

Of course, if you are deploying during the game, from Reserves, then that would be Movement so you cant backtrack.

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