Okay, thanks, Galador and I were discussing this and I said that I didn't know if it was legal but I would ask the members of AoS.
I wanted an opinion, not 9 pages of arguments so I didn't post ot on DakkaDakka or Warseer.

On an unrelated note.
Can you disembark from a transport onto the second (or higher) floor of a ruin as long as you can measure 2" from the access point or the hull?

I've never played it this way, but if it's a legal move it would be a great tactic for me to use.

timewizard wrote:I've never played it this way, but if it's a legal move it would be a great tactic for me to use.

I dunno if its allowed but I'd be fine with it.. discuss with your opponent, as long as you 2 agree its all good

What stunty said.

However, regarding exiting a transport to a second level, I thought it was 3" height per level? As you can only disembark 2" I am not sure you could reach a second level (unless the exit point was on top of a vehicle??)??

Red Devil wrote:However, regarding exiting a transport to a second level, I thought it was 3" height per level? As you can only disembark 2" I am not sure you could reach a second level (unless the exit point was on top of a vehicle??)??

Yes, there is a distance of 3" between levels of ruins.

You measure from the acess point of the vehicle, which in the case of open-topped vehicles is the hull.

In the case of a raider, they are skimmers on flying stands and the hull is nearly 3" off the ground to begin with.

But the top hatch of the rhino is a fire point, not an access point.

The rear hatch (and side hatch for that matter) of the rhino are 1 3/4" off the table. If you disembarked from those points, would you be able to be deployed up to 3 3/4" vertically, onto the second floor of a ruin?

And the top of a raider's hull is 3" off the table. If allowed to deploy vertically, this immediately puts the models on the second level and the raider could even remain almost 2" away from the ruin itself.

@TW - I get your point about skimmers.

There are no rules about which point of the access point a model has to disembark from. I have always played it that you disembark onto the ground (down the ramp in terms of tanks, and jumping down from a skimmer) and measure 2" from the edge of the vehicle (taking a bird's eye view, much like with shooting flamers into buildings over levels).

In terms of tanks, while the rules don't specify that you have to disembark onto the ground, I think it would be a stretch measuring from the upper most part of the access point (ie the top of the rear of a Rhino)...

The crux of the problem is that 40K is a game that uses 3 dimensional models and terrain but 2 dimensional rules.

The rules are clear that you disembark 2" from a vehicle's access point or it's hull, but unclear about whether the move can be up or down into ruins.

If a model is on an upper floor of a ruin, and you are on the ground level, you measure range diagonally to the enemy model for a bolter, but templates are placed one level higher or lower over the target and all models under it are hit.

A model occupies the area of it's base, but ranges are measured to the hull of skimmers, except you can assault be getting into contact with it's hull or base, so you can't move under the skimmer, unless it's on a large oval base!

Q: What part of a skimmer on a large oval flying base
is used to determine if it is in/on terrain or if it is on
friendly or enemy models? (p71)
A: Just the base itself.

I was just curious to see if other people played that you can disembark onto the upper floors of ruins.

Yep - Skimmers are a pain on agreeing when playing at tournaments (1 of the reasons for not attending any for the last year).
At the club we play that you measure from the hull but at ground level, no matter how high up the stem makes the skimmer look.

Note: I've seen a lot of people shorten or not even use the stems in games to try and get more cover from scenery.

The only time I've played that someone disembarked out into a building higher than ground level, they had to move the skimmer to be on top of the building and taking an immobilisation test before the troops jumped out.

Are you talking about a building or a ruin?

timewizard wrote:Are you talking about a building or a ruin?

Sorry should have been clearer, a ruin (incomplete walls, not enclosed or solid).

Don't really have any scenery other than Fortifications that I'd class as buildings.

The only problem is that skimmers cannot move on the upper floors of ruins.

THey are only allowed to move on the ground floor.

It's so situational that it most likely never come up as you have to dismount within 2 inch of the access point and still be in coherency, I don't know many ruins when you could do that.

With a raider ending its move parallel to the wall of a ruin, you could easily disembark a 10 man squad right onto the upper floor of a ruin.