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Gate of Infinity

Discussion of rules in Warhammer 40K - use for existing rules only, for discussing new rules or changes/alternatives use the Rules Development forum

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Gate of Infinity

Postby Ljundhammer » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:28 am

Hi guys, there have been a couple of threads discussing this, but I couldn't find the answer I wanted definitively.

Can GoI be used to teleport out of a vehicle?
Does it make a difference if its a rhino (with a firing port) or a razorback/Land Raider (without a firing port)?

For reference here is the most relevent discussion, which seems to skirt round the issue then dissolves into a Ruffian on/off the board rant, before Tim & Gymbol start trolling him :lol:

Thanks!
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Re: Gate of Infinity

Postby mattjgilbert » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:35 am

Just quickly as I'm busy (read linked thread = fail)... can an Eldar Farseer cast fortune on a squad he is joined to in a vehicle? If the answer to that is yes, surely the GOI answer is also yes.

Will try and read that thread later.
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Re: Gate of Infinity

Postby ruffian4 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:31 am

Ljundhammer wrote:Can GoI be used to teleport out of a vehicle?

Bumstink.

Ljundhammer wrote:Does it make a difference if its a rhino (with a firing port) or a razorback/Land Raider (without a firing port)?

No, its nothing to do with shooting.

Ljundhammer wrote:Ruffian on/off the board rant


rant on > I never rant about anything! < rant off.

Why shoud/n't you?
You have a librarian and a unit that you can measure to = yes.
You don't have a librarian and/or a unit to remove from the tabletop = no.

Do you have to have two models on the table to measure the distance between them? Not according to some faq answers.
Can an embarked model, be considered in b2b with its transport? Don't know, don't think so, but is an ability that requires this workable in this situation = yes.

I think TW may come along and mention transports and casualties and how passengers may be considered on table for that circumstance.

That's fine.
But, it only underlines the huge discrepancies that exist and it's the reason for questions being asked about all sorts of stuff for transported units/models.

If they are for this, are they for that (which is exactly where we are with this stuff).

I can't fault Matts logic re casting powers while in a transport.
I can attack it in a wider sense, by asking if the unit fulfills the goi requirements if its in a transport.

Is a unit in a wave serpent fearless if the serpent is within 12" of an avatar?
Does it matter?

Hammer of the witches.
Can I prove which psycher is nearest and which are further away, if they are passengers? = yes (assuming that this ability "involves" the embarked unit, which, if it effects even 1 model in it, I assume it does).
At this point, am I really measuring to a unit, or a model?

How many psychers are on the table?
If the psychers are on the table, are they on the tabletop?

Are on the table and on the tabletop the same?
Is something on the table, at a higher elevation to something else, on the tabletop, or just on the table or both?

If I use the old deldar dex and pass over an occupied transport, will my slave snares inflict hits?
If not, why not?

Does the powers description, that requires a unit to be "removed from the tabletop" prevent a unit that is not on the table being removed?
Does it matter?

Up to you really.

If you want any kind of consistency and to follow RAW, you can't.
If you accept the inconsistencies are endemic within the transport rules and are willing to ignore "remove" and apply on the table(top) to passengers, then you can.

If you accept that passengers are on the table, then everything that effects units within a bubble, that requires model/unit proximity will work ... but it doesn't according to multi-faqs and GAP.

GOOD LUCK!
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Re: Gate of Infinity

Postby Ljundhammer » Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:36 am

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Re: Gate of Infinity

Postby killmaimburn » Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:50 am

Ohh ruffian???
Q. Can an Iron Priest attempt to use his Battlesmith special rule to repair a vehicle he is currently embarked upon?
A. Yes.
Kiss kiss Mwah.- bye the way in our little tourney, can that apply to techmarines (as it already applies by raw to ork meks)

Latest BRB faq
Q: Can Psychic powers be used on a unit embarked on a transport? (p50)
A: For simplicity’s sake, the answer has to be a firm ‘No, unless the psyker himself is in the unit being transported’

So apparently the biggest thing is is the libby onboard at the time... :lol:
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Re: Gate of Infinity

Postby Ljundhammer » Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:52 am

What? Is that a yes or a no?

I wish I hadn't asked...
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Re: Gate of Infinity

Postby killmaimburn » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:06 pm

Well that last bit by me is GW desperate to prevent 1 nids build emerging as the only paper to the rock of mech guard.. now the doom has to be allowed into the chimera for a cup of tea before he can make the whole army run away.
(If they'd said only effect your own army everything wouldn't work, but saying inside allows eldar to fortune a unit before they disembark at the start of a turn..if the farseer was on there)..
Basically the simple answer is..its a complex answer.
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Re: Gate of Infinity

Postby Ljundhammer » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:10 pm

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Re: Gate of Infinity

Postby mattjgilbert » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:16 pm

Q: Can Psychic powers be used on a unit embarked on a transport? (p50)
A: For simplicity’s sake, the answer has to be a firm ‘No, unless the psyker himself is in the unit being transported’

I think this means the answer is that GOI can be cast on a unit in a vehicle so long as the librarian is also in the same vehicle.
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Re: Gate of Infinity

Postby ruffian4 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:30 pm

killmaimburn wrote:Ohh ruffian???
Q. Can an Iron Priest attempt to use his Battlesmith special rule to repair a vehicle he is currently embarked upon?
A. Yes.

That's what I was talking about. :D

What does it mean though?

Does it say that the preist is in b2b with the vehicle he is in? 8O
Does the rule require it? Yes.
Can he still do it? Yes.

Is a model that is not (physically) on the table, possibly in a unit that was removed from the table when they embarked (or were never on-table, even if they were forced to "move" onto the table from reserve :x ), considered to be in b2b, or does it just work anyway???

Do the wall of nid things that effect units within "X" distance, not count as being within "x" distance vs transported units, or does it just not work anyway???

killmaimburn wrote:Q: Can Psychic powers be used on a unit embarked on a transport? (p50)
A: For simplicity’s sake, the answer has to be a firm ‘No, unless the psyker himself is in the unit being transported’

With the eldar powers, they are mostly used at the start of the turn, so subsequently dis/embarking wouldn't make any difference, subject to where the farseer was, when he used the power.

+
mattjgilbert wrote:I think this means the answer is that GOI can be cast on a unit in a vehicle so long as the librarian is also in the same vehicle.

Agree.
Just not sure the unit can be removed from the tabletop its not on and if that even matters. :lol:

Ljundhammer wrote:What? Is that a yes or a no?

Of course!
Erm, depends.
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Re: Gate of Infinity

Postby Ljundhammer » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:34 pm

Ok, thanks guys, I think Ruffian & Matt agree, so I'll take it that I can GoI out of a rhino.

Thanks!
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Re: Gate of Infinity

Postby killmaimburn » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:40 pm

Well I hope your all pleased with yourselves.. simple answers and all that crazy stuff... humph
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Re: Gate of Infinity

Postby ruffian4 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:48 pm

Ljundhammer wrote:Ok, thanks guys, I think Ruffian & Matt agree, so I'll take it that I can GoI out of a rhino.

Well, I agree with me, I'm not sure if I agree with Matt or not and I can't tell yet if Matt agrees with me. :|

I did say you can cast the power ... just not sure if it works! :?
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Re: Gate of Infinity

Postby mattjgilbert » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:59 pm

They are logically on the tabletop so can logically be removed from it. They are then physically placed back on it via DS.
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Re: Gate of Infinity

Postby Baragash » Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:11 pm

mattjgilbert wrote:They are logically on the tabletop so can logically be removed from it. They are then physically placed back on it via DS.


I can't agree with that, the statement on embarking is crystal clear.
(Unless I missed some RAW somewhere that separates "table" and "tabletop"?)

Are they "in play"*? Yes.

On the table? Definitely not.

*Not a RAW defined term
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