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Grotesques need to test to do anything...

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Grotesques need to test to do anything...

Postby KInG » Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:05 pm

Yes, that's right, and there are other units that also need a HQ with them to act normally, like ogryns, I believe. But if that unit is not with a HQ and needs to test to do anything, is it negated if they are in a transport. Can the transport move, shoot, act as an assault vehicle for them if they don't test. Does the vehicle act normally while they are in it?
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Re: Grotesques need to test to do anything...

Postby timewizard » Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:31 pm

In the case of the grotesques, the rule states that if they are not with an IC at the beginning of the Movement phase, you roll a die. This would take place before any unit moved. So the transport (and any other unit for that matter) would not move before the grotesque unit took the test.

If the test is passed, the grotesques act as normal, so they can move, embark, disembark, etc. And if the test is passed, nothing in the rule says that they would have to be the first unit to move.

So to answer the question, the fact that they are in a transport would not, in and of itself, negate the test. If an IC was embarked in the same transport, then they would be joined by rule, and as such, the test would not be necessary.
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Re: Grotesques need to test to do anything...

Postby KInG » Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:28 pm

but, let's say (I thought I had previously, lol) say they are embarked already at the start of the turn, so they take the test and fail.. it them or the transport moving them that is now stopped by the rule, or can the transport still move?
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Re: Grotesques need to test to do anything...

Postby timewizard » Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:52 pm

If they take the test and fail, they attack every unit within 2D6" and then they are removed from play.
The rule only removes the grotesques from play.
Providing the transport isn't immobilized, it will still be able to move as normal that Movement phase, albeit without the grotesques.
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Re: Grotesques need to test to do anything...

Postby KInG » Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:20 pm

ah, I should read my rules once in a while.. ok then how about the IG ogryns, and if the chimera had been destroyed last turn I take it they can't assault anyone as its not an assault vehicle they were blown out of?
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Re: Grotesques need to test to do anything...

Postby timewizard » Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:32 pm

I don't know if I follow the question. If the chimera is blown up, then the ogryns would have to disembark.
Why would they not be able to assault on their own turn?
They didn't disembark that player turn.
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Re: Grotesques need to test to do anything...

Postby KInG » Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:34 pm

you can't assault from a blown up vehicle unless its an assault one I think... but the Grotesques use Assault transports, therefore they would assault whether it was blown up or not.
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Re: Grotesques need to test to do anything...

Postby timewizard » Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:43 pm

You can't assault from a blown up vehicle that turn.

If the chimera is blown up in the opponent's turn, the ogryns disembark. In the next player turn, they can assault as normal.

If the chimera is somehow blown up in the IG player's turn, then yes, the ogryns after disembarking would not be able to assault that player turn.

The Assault Vehicle rule from page 33 states,
Passengers disembarking from Access Points on a vehicle with this special rule can charge on the turn they do so, even on a turn that the vehicle was destroyed.


Remember though, that when the rule refers to a turn, it means a player turn.
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Re: Grotesques need to test to do anything...

Postby KInG » Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:13 am

ah, I think we've been doing this wrong... BANE, Typhus what's ur take on this?
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Re: Grotesques need to test to do anything...

Postby killmaimburn » Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:15 am

timewizard wrote:Remember though, that when the rule refers to a turn, it means a player turn.

Yes but the killer important bit is the ownersihp word on disembarkation section.. cannot assault in **their** next assault phase. (Doesn't matter whose player turn it is, it matters whose models they are)
RAW has been pretty clear on this from the start. (hence much nashing and crying and moaning from non bike peeps :lol: )
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Re: Grotesques need to test to do anything...

Postby KInG » Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:43 pm

translation anyone? lol
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Re: Grotesques need to test to do anything...

Postby KInG » Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:45 pm

TW; if assault vehicles allow you to charge when you are blown out of the vehicle, then surely vehicles that are not assault vehicles do not allow it.
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Re: Grotesques need to test to do anything...

Postby timewizard » Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:36 pm

Interesting. KMB brought out a word I seem to have missed. "Subsequent". If we take it to mean "next" then I was in error.

In the vehicle damage table, if a transport suffer "crew shaken", the passengers can only make snap shots in their next Shooting phase.

If a transport suffers a "crew stunned", the passengers cannot shoot at all in their next Shooting phase.

If the transport is destroyed, the passengers must immediately disembark. The key part here is the words, "...in the usual manner (see page 79)..." and disembarking in the usual manner means no declaring an assault in their "subsequent" Assault phase, which I would take to mean their next Assault phase, which might not occur until their next turn.

So in this, I was in error, and ogryns that have been forced to disembark from their destroyed transport, that is not an assault transport, would be unable to declare a charge in in their next Assault phase. And if the transport is destroyed during the opponent's turn, this would carry over to the IG player's turn.
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Re: Grotesques need to test to do anything...

Postby KInG » Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:57 pm

cool, we've done it right then... We've not been letting SMs who got shot out of their transport assault next turn, which is therefore correct :)
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Re: Grotesques need to test to do anything...

Postby timewizard » Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:07 pm

Yes, unless they are disembarking from an assault vehicle or open-topped transport. And in a pure facepalm moment....

Main Rulebook FAQ v1.5 wrote:Q: If a unit disembarks from a destroyed vehicle during the
enemy turn, can it Charge in the Assault phase of its own
turn? (p80)
A: No, unless the vehicle in question was an Assault
Vehicle.
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