Some may have guessed that I have a dislike for the IA AP book, not saying it was rushed out or anything else and was full of mistakes and is better used as posh toilet paper but ....

anyway to the point of the post: How do you use IA AP units in non-AP games when weapon info lists AP specific rules such as destroyer or main armament or hellstorm etc?!?!

as the rules for these don't exist in standard games it effectively means you can't use them outside AP!

Dan is the expert on this sort of thing, but...

i was under the impression that you used the newest rules for the unit outside of the Apoc book (latest IA Update?) if the rules in IA Apoc dont work in normal games.

or is there something that doesnt have any rules (even old ones) except Apoc rules?

hope that helps

~ Tim

Tim, the problem is FW's shortsightedness in delcaring IA Update 2006 completely superceded by IAA - there are a few units that don't have non-Apoc rules if IAUpdate2006 is complete ignored, my Eldar Vampire Raider for instance (there is no Hover Mode rule in 40k, and the Hunter version has Str D weapons which don't exist in non-Apoc either)

The summary pages in IAA make it pretty obvious to me that for non-Apoc games many of the units still use the hardback IA rules - like a Shadowsword will use IA Vol 1 in 40k games, and the IAA rules in Apocalypse games. For those units it's not an issue - just for the IAU2006 units.

My pet peeve is the damcoles, in 40k it has no bombardment skill to recieve free (unless its the prelineary bombardment skill a bit uber) and in 40k [EDIT sorry I meant apoc]it has no need for the "reinforcement dice" because of the way reserves work on set time pieces.
So basically I've gone back to using old rules (IA2) and imperial update 2006. Because IA Apoc makes so much of a pain in my bun (for both games systems)

Spack wrote:Tim, the problem is FW's shortsightedness in delcaring IA Update 2006 completely superceded by IAA - there are a few units that don't have non-Apoc rules if IAUpdate2006 is complete ignored,

sorry, i was suggesting a GaP workaround, instead of the (silly) RaW. (suppose i should have said that lol)

if AI Apoc doesnt cover a unit properly in non-Apoc games, but you already have working rules for that unit for normal games, then (RaW technicalities aside) just carry on using them as you did befre IA Apoc was released.

the real problem would be if there were any new units in IA Apoc that you wanted to use in normal games, but the only rules for them were Apoc rules (i.e. no pre-Apoc rules, and no non-Apoc rules in IA Apoc).

are there any units like that^?

cheers

~ Tim

Don't think there are any units like that - all the units are either in IAU2006 or one of the hardback volumes.

At least you agree with Harkan and I then Tim Harkan has taken this stance with the AB40k files as it's the only solution that makes sense - it's just that it's already getting some resistance from the wider AB40k userbase (and they don't seem to have the sense to just tick the Apoc ruleset when they've sorted out the rest of their army and then just add the Apoc versions of the units if they want to use those instead).

I understand where you guys are coming from on this one.
So now its time to play Devil's advocate.

Take a look at the intro in IA AP. It says that it replaces IA2006 right. Right after that there is a small reason why. Because Apocalypse gives them a new rule set to incorporate into their units. I think it was a comment on the new blast/templates. There are many units in the IA AP book the are able to be played in a normal game that haven't been around before(Remora Drone). Then are units that were in need of an update in order to use them(Chaos Spined Beast).
When I read the book I thought it was clear that IA intended for IA Apoc units to be used in replace of anything older. Isn't that why they have the repsective force organization slots for most items? Granted this means you can't use any units in Imperial Armour Apocalypse in a normal game without owning Apocalypse, cause you need the rules.
(I bet that was the point)

Using the view that you will need the Apoc book in normal games to use IA AP units, Is there a single unit that "breaks" and is unusable. I quickly looked through the IA AP units, I couldn't find one.

Hopefully someone will get a response from FW about what they intended for non AP games so the world can go on and people can use the models they miss using.

For a normal 40k game, so the Apocalypse rulebook cannot be used for reference to rules, the following units become "unusable":

Eldar Scorpion: Str D weapon, Eldar Titan Holofields
Eldar Cobra: ditto
Eldar Phoenix: Eldar Titan Holofields
Eldar Vampire Raider: Str D Pulsar, Holofields
Eldar Vampire Hunter: Str D Pulsars, Holofields
Chaos Warhound: Str D weapon, Hellstorm template

And then there are the units in the Apocalypse rulebook that were in IAU2006

Eldar Revenant Titan
Necron Pylon


Sucks for me and the guy I've played most often at the club - I've got the Eldar Vampire Raider, Phoenix, and Chaos Warhound, and he has the Eldar Scorpion and Cobra, Revenant, and Pylon. As it is we'll be using IAU2006 for those when not playing Apocalypse.

it is rs and I think is more a case of FW rushing a book out to please GW HQ rather than FW planning as they are usually good

Spack wrote:For a normal 40k game, so the Apocalypse rulebook cannot be used for reference to rules, the following units become "unusable":

Eldar Scorpion: Str D weapon, Eldar Titan Holofields
Eldar Cobra: ditto
Eldar Phoenix: Eldar Titan Holofields
Eldar Vampire Raider: Str D Pulsar, Holofields
Eldar Vampire Hunter: Str D Pulsars, Holofields
Chaos Warhound: Str D weapon, Hellstorm template

And then there are the units in the Apocalypse rulebook that were in IAU2006

Eldar Revenant Titan
Necron Pylon


Sucks for me and the guy I've played most often at the club - I've got the Eldar Vampire Raider, Phoenix, and Chaos Warhound, and he has the Eldar Scorpion and Cobra, Revenant, and Pylon. As it is we'll be using IAU2006 for those when not playing Apocalypse.

Don't forget the Eldar Nightwing

On the other hand, I'm sorely tempted to use at least one Nightspinner in an Eldar army with the updated rules for them in IA Apocalypse.