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Immobilized transport (Next Question)

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Immobilized transport (Next Question)

Postby timewizard » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:08 pm

Okay, here's the scenario.

I have a squad of wyches in close combat with an enemy unit. In the enemy's Assault phase, the wyches manage to annihilate the enemy unit. They are now caught out in the open. I make a consolidation move towards cover, but don't roll high enough to get there.

In my movement phase, I move a raider forward to protect the wyches but have to move into DT to do so. I move it into the terrain, but it fails it's DT test and is immobilized. I roll a DT for the wyches, but fail to roll high enough for them to get into DT for a cover save. I have however, rolled high enough for them to get within 2" of the immobilized raider.

So, can I move the wyches and embark them onto the immobilized transport to give them some extra protection from my opponent's shooting phase?

I can't find anything in the rules that says you can only embark into a non-immobilized transport.
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Re: Immobilized transport

Postby Angelwing » Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:51 pm

don't see the problem about getting into an immobilised transport.
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Re: Immobilized transport

Postby BDA » Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:09 am

yep there is no rule saying you can not embark or disembark from a immobilized transport :)
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Re: Immobilized transport

Postby BANE » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:08 pm

Perfectly fine.
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Re: Immobilized transport

Postby Baragash » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:44 pm

+1 to "no issues I can see"
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Re: Immobilized transport

Postby timewizard » Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:26 pm

Thanks for the replies! Thought it was so, just wanted to be sure.

Now for the next part. We all know from the rules on embarking and disembarking that:

Rules page 78 wrote:Models can only voluntarily embark or disembark in the Movement phase. They cannot voluntarily embark and disembark in the same turn. However, they can embark and then be forced to disembark if their Transport is destroyed.
{emphasis mine}

Now the question is, can the reverse be true? Can a model that is forced to disembark from a destroyed transport in the Movement phase then (provided it hadn't already moved) embark on a different transport?

For example, I have a squad of wyches on a raider. The raider has 1 hull point left. I move it forward into difficult terrain. I fail the DT test and the raider is immobilized. The squad of wyches are now forced to disembark. I move the first model in contact with the hull and move it 3". This move puts the model within 2" of another raider that is empty. Can the wyche now embark on the raider?
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Re: Immobilized transport (Next Question)

Postby berger15 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:31 pm

I'm going to say no. No basis for this except sheer bloody mindedness. :)
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Re: Immobilized transport (Next Question)

Postby jlong05 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:31 pm

Maybe this is old, or maybe doesnt exist at all, but I thought there was a rule against Disembarking and Embarking the same unit in the same movement phase.
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Re: Immobilized transport (Next Question)

Postby timewizard » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:00 pm

jlong05 wrote:Maybe this is old, or maybe doesnt exist at all, but I thought there was a rule against Disembarking and Embarking the same unit in the same movement phase.


There is, I quoted it above, but the rule prohibits voluntarily embarking and disembarking in the same turn. The rule does say that you could be forced to disembark by having your transport destroyed.

If you look at the rule on page 80 under the effects on passengers when the vehicle is wrecked, it says;

The passengers must immediately disembark in the usual manner (seepage 79), save that they must end their move wholly within 3" rather than 6".


Page 79 says that the passengers disembark by being placed in base contact with an access point, and "The model can then make a normal move..." with the restriction that it may only move 3".

A qualifying model that makes a normal move may voluntarily embark on a transport in it's Movement phase. So if the model can now make "...a normal move..." and it has not as yet voluntarily embarked or disembarked from a transport, it should be allowed to embark into one if desired.
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Re: Immobilized transport (Next Question)

Postby Baragash » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:17 pm

I agree with everything so far, but what about the requirement to end the move within 3" of the transport it disembarked from? If it embarks on another vehicle has it met that condition, or broken it?
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Re: Immobilized transport (Next Question)

Postby timewizard » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:27 pm

The model has ended it's move within 3" of the access point.

But by ending it's move there, it has moved within 2" of the access point of another transport. Page 78 says that by moving a model to within 2" of a transport's access point, the model can embark. Doesn't have to, but it can.
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Re: Immobilized transport (Next Question)

Postby Baragash » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:37 pm

Yes, but does a move end before or after models embark? The embarking paragraph doesn't say either way.

Disembarked models are required to end their move wholly within 6" of the access point of the vehicle it disembarked from. Hence when a move is considered to end is important if the transport they are embarking on isn't (wholly???) within 6" of the tranport they were forced to disembark from.
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Re: Immobilized transport (Next Question)

Postby timewizard » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:43 pm

Baragash wrote:Yes, but does a move end before or after models embark? The embarking paragraph doesn't say either way.

Disembarked models are required to end their move wholly within 6" of the access point of the vehicle it disembarked from. Hence when a move is considered to end is important if the transport they are embarking on isn't (wholly???) within 6" of the tranport they were forced to disembark from.


There's a big key difference between embarking and disembarking. When disembarking, the model's is placed in base contact with an access point and then executes a move, normally up to 6", the standard infantry move.

But when embarking, a model has only to move within 2" of a transport's access point.

So an infantry unit move 6", it's maximum movement distance, and ends its move within 2" of an access point of a transport and subsequently embarks. Has it moved in excess of 6"? Not at all. It ended it's move and since it was withing the required distance of an access point, it embarked. Embarking is not moving.

In the case I asked about, the models "must end their move wholly within 3" [of an access point] rather than 6"" Since I ended my move "wholly within" the 3" and I am now within 2" of an access point, and embarking is neither continuing movement nor movement itself, I should be able to embark as any other model would.
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Re: Immobilized transport (Next Question)

Postby Baragash » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:39 pm

timewizard wrote:Embarking is not moving.


Citation?

I reckon that page 10 + lack of anything saying it isn't in the embarkation rules makes a pretty good case that embarking is part of a models "move" even if it isn't "movement".
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Re: Immobilized transport (Next Question)

Postby timewizard » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:47 pm

Embarking in and of itself is not a part of movement. If it were, a model would have to get in base contact with a transport's access point in order to embark. That's because an infantry unit cannot move more than 6" in its Movement phase.

But to embark, the model only has to move within 2" of the access point. You could have a transport's access point 7.99" away from an infantry model. It moves its full movement distance of 6" and is now within 2" of the access point allowing it to embark. This is not movement of an additional 1.99", it is an embarkation.
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