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Rules: Strike from the shadows.

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Rules: Strike from the shadows.

Postby BANE » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:26 pm

Strike from the Shadows: Models in this detachment have
the Scout special rule. In addition, on the first game turn,
models in this detachment have the Stealth special rule. Note
that units that include models with the Bulky or Very Bulky
special rules do not benefit from either rule.


Question: If a RG model legally gains this rule at the start of the game before deployment and is an IC, if I place the IC with a unit that is Bulky or Very Bulky does the USR pass across?

Now at first glance this might seem obvious due to the sentence in red, but was the intent to stop you getting this rule on Bulky models or to stop models that gain it passing it on to bulky models. My argument is based around if an IC had these rules from any other source he could join the RG Bulky unit and STILL pass it on.
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Re: Rules: Strike from the shadows.

Postby timewizard » Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:31 pm

In general, the Independent Character Special rule from page 39 states, "Unless specified in the rule itself (as in the Stubborn special rule), the unit's special rules are not conferred upon the Independent Character, and the Independent Character's special rules are not conferred upon the unit."

So that together with the red highlighted section would seem to indicate that the ICs Strike from the Shadows special rule would not be able to confer Scout and/or Stealth on bulky models, particularly since the rule specifically excludes units which contain Bulky and Very Bulky models.
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Re: Rules: Strike from the shadows.

Postby BANE » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:49 pm

Ok, my turn then :-)

The rule the IC gains are Scout and Stealth for the first turn Nowhere in the Scout or the Stealth USR does it say it cant pass to a Bulky or Very Bulky model. In fact it specifically says that only 1 model in the unit requires the USR for the squad to take the benefit.

My issue is Once the game starts my IC can legally gain the rules. Now at the point he gains the USR he does not have a Bulky or Very Bulky model in his unit, only once I deploy him and attach him to a unit at which point he already has the rules.
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Re: Rules: Strike from the shadows.

Postby Baragash » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:07 pm

Strike from the Shadows: Models in this detachment have
the Scout special rule. In addition, on the first game turn,
models in this detachment have the Stealth special rule. Note
that units that include models with the Bulky or Very Bulky
special rules do not benefit from either rule.


I don't see any qualifier in the red text that makes it a "one time test" of rules application as you're trying to suggest. The test is applied at any point in any process where you might be called upon to apply the Scout or Stealth special rules. If at the point where you would apply the rule, a model in the unit has Bulky or Very Bulky, the rule does not apply to that unit.
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Re: Rules: Strike from the shadows.

Postby timewizard » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:12 pm

I understand what you're saying. Here's the issue.

The IC does indeed gain Scout and Stealth. The IC alone can make a scout move and gains stealth. Both the Scout and Stealth special rule say that a unit with at least one model with the special rule has the ability. If the IC had the ability in it's own right, it could certainly benefit the unit with Bulky or Very Bulky models.

However, in your example, the IC is gaining Stealth and Scout not on his own, but because of another special rule, in this case "Strike from the Shadows".
And that special rule clearly states that units with Bulky or Very Bulky models do not benefit from the rule, which would include the IC at the moment he joins the unit.
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Re: Rules: Strike from the shadows.

Postby KInG » Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:51 pm

I think your looking for Easter eggs again ;)

They do not benefit from either rule under any situation, even if allowed normally, by any normal means.
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