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Vibro Cannon

Discussion of rules in Warhammer 40K - use for existing rules only, for discussing new rules or changes/alternatives use the Rules Development forum

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Vibro Cannon

Postby zipper-fish » Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:31 pm

Hi, just a quick question on the vibro cannon. How many levels of a building to they hit ? If its just one level that you aim at can you aim under or over your skimmers to hit a level ? This came up in a game last week. Cheers for any help. Zip
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Postby KInG » Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:36 pm

I was in this game. We debated it, 3 of us, and decided, rightly or wrongly, to treat the 'draw a line' as the path of a bullet. This tied in with the 'only one level is hit' rule for ruins, suffered by other weapons, namely template/blast ones, and allso works better with the new LOS rules.

Before, 4th ed would make you hit any of your own units traversed by the line from the V cannon. But the new 5th rules would let it pass over/under a friendly vehicle, if it was a dot and not a line.

What's your take on it?
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Postby killmaimburn » Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:46 am

KInG wrote:Before, 4th ed would make you hit any of your own units traversed by the line from the V cannon. But the new 5th rules would let it pass over/under a friendly vehicle, if it was a dot and not a line.

It wouldn't magically vanish when it hits frinedly eldar.
Q. Can vibro cannons affect targets out of line of sight? Friendly units? Units locked in combat?
A. Yes, they are rather indiscriminate weapons

They do clarify straight line

Page 45 – Vibro Cannon.
The third sentence should be changed to:
If any of the vibro cannons hit, draw a single 36"
*straight* line from one vibro cannon in any direction.

And then they say a line does have to physically pass through a model rather than gaps in coherancy (can someone cite that, I lost source :oops: )

I'd agree with the comparison to flamer weapons.. but it might need some fine tuning, remember if a flamer hits a building it hits the building and the contents with D6 hits (top of page 80) I can see the cannon weebles going nuts and pinballing around inside as a herd of earthquakes right now 8O
Also note that the template appears to be laid and then height allocated as and after thought (that direction and I choose height B)p85 2nd diagram the flamer hits 2 genestealers when if it was coming from the gun mount at 45 ish degree arc it would only hit one (maybe?) So I'd suggest possibly a straight 2 dimensional line.. and then saying it hits height 3 of the building (if in range) was acceptable.(as opposed to the vibrocannon having to fire its shot at 10 degrees elevation)

You know I just say these things so that the smarter people can turn up and correct me :D (its like rules trolling for the greater good :lol: )

Wotcha zipper fish, thats a nice avatar, i thought.. age of strife was the only place I viewed that didn't have my ass stuck all over the place,I was young I liked red shoes :P
Last edited by killmaimburn on Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:51 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby estarriol » Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:14 am

Ummm Vibro cannon can only hit one level of a building. Ok what happens if it hits the ground floor, and there are troops on the 1st, 2nd and 3rd floors?
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Postby killmaimburn » Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:47 am

To apply my shoddy answer it hits the ground floor with line.. you then decide which tier of troops you are hitting (and only that tier)..I know my answer is flakey.. (How would the alternate view handle an elevated course thats line goes through all 4 levels of a building (hes underneath it firing up) would that then put us into a totally 3d frame of playing?
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Postby mattjgilbert » Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:51 am

You could simply say it can only ever travel along and hit ground level.
Last edited by mattjgilbert on Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby cgra1 » Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:58 am

You could simply say it can only ever travel along and hit ground level.


But then how do you shoot Skimmers
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Postby mortiferum » Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:59 am

Hmmm…. Are you not making an (incorrect?) assumption that you should resolve vibro cannon hits on a multilayered set of ruins like a template weapon and therefore only effect the models within a unit on that particular level?

IIRC (I don’t have elder codex on me at the moment) the Vibro Cannon simply causes d6 hits on the unit, it doesn’t care what level the various models are on?

Consider the following a vibro cannon line is drawn that intersects the following units:

a. A floating Monolith over open ground
b. A unit of 10 Necron Warriors stood on a hill
c. A unit of 10 Necron Warriors within a multilayered set of ruins spread over 3 levels(1 on ground floor, 4 on 1st floor, 5 on 2nd floor)
d. Another floating Monolith that is hovering over a 2 level ruin (ground floor and 1st floor)

I’ve always played this as each of the units mentioned above would sustain d6 hits (or a max. of 1 glancing hit in the case of the ‘Liths) irrespective of there various positions. Isn’t this correct?
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Postby killmaimburn » Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:26 am

mortiferum wrote:Hmmm…. Are you not making an (incorrect?) assumption that you should resolve vibro cannon hits on a multilayered set of ruins like a template weapon and therefore only effect the models within a unit on that particular level?

IIRC (I don’t have elder codex on me at the moment) the Vibro Cannon simply causes d6 hits on the unit, it doesn’t care what level the various models are on?
But what if tier 1 and tier 2 are seperate units..or other elaborate combinations such as where the IC is.
mortiferum wrote:Consider the following a vibro cannon line is drawn that intersects the following units:

a. A floating Monolith over open ground
b. A unit of 10 Necron Warriors stood on a hill
c. A unit of 10 Necron Warriors within a multilayered set of ruins spread over 3 levels(1 on ground floor, 4 on 1st floor, 5 on 2nd floor)
d. Another floating Monolith that is hovering over a 2 level ruin (ground floor and 1st floor)

I’ve always played this as each of the units mentioned above would sustain d6 hits (or a max. of 1 glancing hit in the case of the ‘Liths) irrespective of there various positions. Isn’t this correct?
If you used the bullet path theorum (king).. you raised the angle of the shot up to hit the skimmer.you may then be shooting over the heads of unit c necrons as the shot continues to elevate in a straight path..
(I hate 3d :lol: )
EDIT - oh I see 8O .. but doesn't that duck the question.. or are you saying thats the only way it would work?
Last edited by killmaimburn on Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby mattjgilbert » Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:54 am

cgra1 wrote:But then how do you shoot Skimmers
Skimmers are ground targets like any other model (rules-wise). What I meant though is that when targeting ruins , you can only hit the ground level: you cannot claim to be hitting any level above this.
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Postby conscriptboris » Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:11 pm

I think ppl are confusing it with a ordnance weapon!!

It should be treated as a normal weapon, ie a lascannon, if a unit is in range, on top of building, flyer...whatever, it takes the appropriate attacks, weapons that effect multiple units say this in the rules do they not?!?!?

The "FLUFF" of the weapon may show something else, but the rules state, range, D6 whatever attacks on one enemy unit, no ordinance so your vehicles dont get effected! just one enemy unit!

im sure that sounds right?

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Postby mortiferum » Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:44 pm

Hmmm.. the replies are beginning to make me question my original interpretation?

I think I've narrowed it down to whether or not the 'line' should be treated as the 'bullet path theoreom', I don't think it can (trying to attach a diagram but I can't get photobucket to upload my diagram at the moment) but I'm intrigued to see what others think and why?
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Postby mattjgilbert » Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:16 pm

conscriptboris wrote:I think ppl are confusing it with a ordnance weapon!!

It should be treated as a normal weapon, ie a lascannon, if a unit is in range, on top of building, flyer...whatever, it takes the appropriate attacks, weapons that effect multiple units say this in the rules do they not?!?!?

The "FLUFF" of the weapon may show something else, but the rules state, range, D6 whatever attacks on one enemy unit, no ordinance so your vehicles dont get effected! just one enemy unit!

im sure that sounds right?

conscriptboris
Every unit along a "line" drawn from the weapon will get hit (vehicles included). The debate is exactly how you are allowed to draw that line.

I think the rule was intended for 2D use (so draw the line long the table) but the question is can you draw the line in 3D and draw it through units/models in upper levels of ruins (for example) and if so, does that mean intervening units can be "shot over".
Last edited by mattjgilbert on Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby mortiferum » Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:56 pm

Finally got image to load.

Matt's previous post sums up the query quite nicely I think.

The image below represents a side on view of a gaming board (Notice the board is not flat and there is no physical 'hill' piece of terrain.

The Vibro cannon (yellow) succeeds in its roll to hit and goes on to draw a straight line.

The line goes through the unit (blue) as illustrated, is the red unit also hit, or does the vibro cannon hit go over there heads?

Image

EDIT: I should mention that if viewed from above the vibro, blue and red unit are all in line with each other
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Postby estarriol » Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:15 pm

It was more a questopn of what happens to the upper floors if the ground floor is vibrated to death?
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