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When is Gate of Infinity used?

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When is Gate of Infinity used?

Postby timewizard » Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:17 pm

Hi all, fairly big discussion going on over at DakkaDakka, http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/po ... 05763.page about GoI.

The crux of the argument is that one side says since it it used "at the beginning of the Librarian's Movement phase" that the power must be used before any other marine unit has moved, in essence it must be used at the beginning of the player's movement phase.

My argument is that since the rule doesn't specify it is used at the beginning of the player's movement phase, the Librarian can use GoI to move at any point during the player's movement phase, it simply must be used at the beginning of the Librarian's move. In other words, the Librarian cannot move first and then use GoI.

The wording for GoI is the same as for Eldar Skyleap (used at the beginning of the unit's movement phase) and the Necron Lord's Veil of Darkness (used by the Lord at the beginning of it's movement phase).

I've always played that any of these units can use these powers or wargear at any point during the player's movement phase so long as the power is used before the individual unit has moved.

Have I been playing this wrong?
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Re: When is Gate of Infinity used?

Postby killmaimburn » Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:50 pm

One of those folks seems just to be arguing for the sake of arguing..

Kel's argument that "Because models in this game do not individually "activate" nor have thier own individual Phases. "
Makes perfect sense, for all of us who have left 40k gone off and played warmahkingsofmaliufex..
However the intro to movement on p11 tells us that it is indeed a sequential act (pick up a chess piece finish with it move along) that is whilst slightly more informal a version of models activating (you can't just shove 2 units forwards at the same time to avoid them moving through each other) something of the same ilk.
From thread behaviour it looks like someones reported you though.. I suggest implying, and brevity be removed and logic plus smilies be your only words.
Have to say I side with it being in the giant hold all of start of turn.. there is something LH has been doing recently in the middle of a phase that might help you (but its been so long since i faced his list I can't remember what it is, he was very smug when he did it though so it must be very good ;))
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Re: When is Gate of Infinity used?

Postby Baragash » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:00 pm

timewizard wrote:The crux of the argument is that one side says since it it used "at the beginning of the Librarian's Movement phase" that the power must be used before any other marine unit has moved, in essence it must be used at the beginning of the player's movement phase.


I agree with this. But since I only use RAW for guidance and not as an ultimate arbiter, I'm not sure my reasons are that useful.
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Re: When is Gate of Infinity used?

Postby mattjgilbert » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:41 pm

Another vote here for it being used at the beginning of the player's movement phase. "Librarian" here is shorthand for "the player owning the librarian" or " the Librarian player".
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Re: When is Gate of Infinity used?

Postby timewizard » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:55 pm

Then I guess I have been playing it wrong.
Thanks for the responses.
I still think GW could have made it clearer by saying that these powers, abilities and wargear are used at the beginning of the player's movement phase, and not the unit.
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Re: When is Gate of Infinity used?

Postby mattjgilbert » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:55 am

Hopefully they'll sort that out in 6th ed.
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Re: When is Gate of Infinity used?

Postby Baragash » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:48 am

mattjgilbert wrote:Hopefully they'll sort that out in 6th ed.


:rofl

There have been issues in WHF and 40k that have traversed more than one edition, IIRC different base sizes was FAQ'd in 6th but not put in the rules for 7th, and I was reading another Dakka rules topic yesterday where one poster was adamant they'd rule X in an FAQ/6th despite the fact that the problem existed in 4th (I forget which issue) and hadn't been fixed in 5th.

But yeah, I hope so too..... ;)
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Re: When is Gate of Infinity used?

Postby mattjgilbert » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:54 am

Well all they need is a new phase for stuff at the start of the turn and/or some clear statements on what start-of-phase means.

That would make ruffian a happy man.


Too much to ask...we shall see :)
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Re: When is Gate of Infinity used?

Postby killmaimburn » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:06 pm

I'm fairly sure you said the same thing lots at the end of 4th Matt,
Rules fora basically become a new meme of who cares wait a year to see if they fix it, as soon as a new edition is announced :D
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Re: When is Gate of Infinity used?

Postby timewizard » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:13 pm

mattjgilbert wrote:Well all they need is a new phase for stuff at the start of the turn and/or some clear statements on what start-of-phase means.

That would make ruffian a happy man.

Too much to ask...we shall see :)


That would clean up the turn sequence considerably. There are a number of issues that had to be FAQed that could be cleaned up in the rules.

And all that could be done without adding too many phases or cluttering up the turn sequence. Like you though Matt, I doubt we'll see it come to pass.
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