hey all

something just occured to me while i was reading a thread on Warseer (here).

joining Cassius to a squad means the enemy doesnt use his Toughness (of 6!) for the purposes of rolling to wound. however, in 5th ed:

- ICs can join eachother
- Maj T goes with the highest when there is a tie for majority

so if Cassius joins another IC (forming a 2 model unit), they both get to use his T of 6 (not in CC, of course, as they both fight as individuals - but he still gets to use it though).



now, due to sloppy(?) wording in the Chaplain entry, im not sure whether Cassius would confer Fearless and rerolls to hit to the other IC (is "squad" even a game term? surely they meant "unit"? especially considering the new IC joining IC rule...), so you would have to work that out. but still, a pair of T6 ICs (complex unit) running around is pretty scary regardless (especially if you use the other IC to soak up wounds that would ignore Cassius' FnP). stick him with a 3W IC you would need to do 5 unsaved wounds on them just to kill one of them!

so, what do you think?

cheers

~ Tim

I think, Tim, that you are an evil, evil, man.

As an eldar player I demand this thread be taken down right now before this travesty spreads evil ideas to all marine players.

Dan

lol

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:so if Cassius joins another IC (forming a 2 model unit), they both get to use his T of 6 (not in CC, of course, as they both fight as individuals - but he still gets to use it though).

But not for instant death purposes, yes stacking las on him might work for a while... but I see it as a non optimal points sink.(230points min= 3 obliterators and some change who only need to kill them for their points back )
He needs to get to where he's going and for that he'll need more ablatives, or possibly to come down in a drop pod and then they both leave the squad?

Kyrolon wrote:I think, Tim, that you are an evil, evil, man.

why thank you.

thing is, the only reason i can see for the changes to the IC rules is that they want these kind of tag-teams running about. same goes for using the highest when there is no Majority...

now, if only we could get Cassius in a Mixed Toughness squad with no Maj (for example, 5 x T4 + 5 x T3 + Cassius = 11 x T6).

Kyrolon wrote:As an eldar player I demand this thread be taken down right now before this travesty spreads evil ideas to all marine players.

or you could just join an Autarch to Eldrad to make them both T4.
(shame it doesnt work with the Avatar... )

killmaimburn wrote:But not for instant death purposes,

true.

killmaimburn wrote:but I see it as a non optimal points sink.,

probably - TBH i hadnt even looked at the costs involved. Cassius was being touted as a no-brainer alternative to a normal Chappie on foot, so i didnt think it would be too outrageous though.

killmaimburn wrote:He needs to get to where he's going and for that he'll need more ablatives,

or something to screen them - maybe Run behind a Rhino for a couple of turns? 2 ICs should be easy enough to hide.

killmaimburn wrote:or possibly to come down in a drop pod and then they both leave the squad?

that could work.

or you could just keep this trick up your sleeve until later in the game. once the enemy is weakened the squad can back off to grab an objective and the tag team could advance menacingly.

as an aside, how do people feel about the RaW issue i raised in the OP? if an IC joins an IC, can they both consider eachother "the squad he has joined"?

seems a bit daft that if Cassius joins a Marine on his own he makes him fearless + give him rerolls, and if he joins a Marine and a Captain he makes them both fearless + gives them both rerolls, but if he joins the Captain by himself they arent Fearless and only Cassius gets the rerolls.

thoughts?

~ Tim

Servitor and techmarine and cassius dude

I'm ok with the tag teams they can be targeted and cost too much.
(read my fluff you fuuls)

killmaimburn wrote:(read my fluff you fuuls)

im readin', im readin'!



~ Tim

heres another idea: Join Cassius to a Thunderfire unit!

that way, all hits on the Crew will roll to wound against Cassius' T6!

not only that, but apparantly Cassius cant even get hit as ICs joined to Artillery arent considered Crew.



and if they are able to take hits, then Cassius can soak up damage that would otherwise kill the Techmarine.

anyone else think of a good one?

~ Tim

Sorry I'm responding to something this old, but despite my whining about orks n whatnot, I think eldar players can always out break any other army.

Eldrad, Yvriel and 3 wraithguard.
In a waveserpent w/ starengines.
w/ fortune on both vehicle and 'squad'.

This really ought NOT to be allowed.

Gymbol wrote:Sorry I'm responding to something this old, but despite my whining about orks n whatnot, I think eldar players can always out break any other army.

Eldrad, Yvriel and 3 wraithguard.
In a waveserpent w/ starengines.
w/ fortune on both vehicle and 'squad'.

This really ought NOT to be allowed.

Apologies if this is raising the dead!

That unit would cost in the region of 600pts!

And would struggle to kill that many pts back!

Just go for either a JB seer council or seer council in Wave serpent!

Much more effective pts spending imho!

-Rob

I believe it says in the rulebook that 'squad' is one of several terms used to refer to a 'unit'. Haven't you got it comitted to memory Malek?

Xandros wrote:I believe it says in the rulebook that 'squad' is one of several terms used to refer to a 'unit'. Haven't you got it comitted to memory Malek?

Have 'Faith', he's had quite a bit on his plate for the last few months!

timewizard wrote:Have 'Faith', he's had quite a bit on his plate for the last few months!

Check the dates TW, this is before he had an excuse, (sept 08 )
Xandros, there is the bit on p48, that encourages the much looser translation of the word.
" They can join other independent characters though, to form a powerful multi-character unit! "
(there are treat-as-similars like " representing a squad leader or unit champion"p47 in a few places.
(this is one spanner that can be thrown in some folks arguments when trying to stop other nutters creating uber silly units with multiple ICs inside a command squad/shrike squad etc)
its a good joke thread.. I'd forgotten about it

killmaimburn wrote:

timewizard wrote:Have 'Faith', he's had quite a bit on his plate for the last few months!

Check the dates TW, this is before he had an excuse, (sept 08 )

True enough, but I was referring to Xandros question which was posted today.

killmaimburn wrote:Xandros, there is the bit on p48, that encourages the much looser translation of the word.

There is also the section on "Units" on page 3, "...squads, teams, sections or similarly named groups...we represent this by grouping models together into units."

My point was really whether you would refer to everything that is a unit as a "squad". An IC by itself if a unit, but I wouldnt call him a squad. 2 ICs joined together... are they a "squad" of ICs? And Bikers go around in "squadrons", dont they?

I would have written his rule more generally, using "unit" rather than "squad". That would have sounded better overall, wouldnt it?

Cheers

~ Tim